1. In the sixth consulship of Honorius Augustus, on the seventh day before the ides of December,

Augustine, bishop of the Catholic Church of the region of Hippo Regius, said: You know that yesterday you said that you could defend the writings of Mani and maintain that they have the truth. If it pleases you to do this today, or if you presume that you are able to, say so.

Felix the Manichean said: I do not deny that I said I would defend my law, if the authors of my law are brought forward in our midst.

And when Bishop Augustine had brought forward the letter of Mani that they call The Foundation, he said: If I read from this book that you see me carrying the letter of Mani that you call The Foundation, can you recognize whether it is the one?

Felix said: I recognize it.

Augustine said: Take it yourself, and read.

And when Felix had taken the book, he read: Mani, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the providence of God the Father. These are wholesome words from the perennial and living fountain; whoever hears them and first believes them, and then keeps what they enjoin, will never be subject to death but will enjoy eternal and glorious life. For he is surely to be judged blessed who has been instructed in this divine knowledge, by which, set free, he will abide in everlasting life.

Bishop Augustine said: You have certainly recognized the letter of your Mani?

Felix said: I have recognized it.

Augustine said: Prove to us, then, how this Mani is an apostle of Jesus Christ. For we nowhere read of him among the apostles in the Gospel; and we know who was ordained in the place of Judas the betrayer, namely, Saint Matthias (See Acts 1:26); and everyone acknowledges who it was that was afterward called by the Lord's voice from heaven, namely, the apostle Paul (See Acts 9:17). Prove to us, then, that this Mani is an apostle of Christ, which he dared to put at the head of his letter.

2. Felix said: And let Your Holiness prove to me what is written in the Gospel, where Christ says: I am going to the Father, and I will send you the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, who will lead you into all truth (John 16:13). Prove to me, apart from this writing, that this is the writing of the Holy Spirit, which Christ promised, in which all truth is to be found; and if I find the truth in other books that do not belong to Mani, then Christ handed those down too. For it was said by Christ that the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, will himself lead into all truth: according to Christ's word I reject the writings of Mani.

Augustine said: Since, then, you could not prove how Mani is an apostle of Christ, and you demand that I prove how Christ sent the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, whom he promised, so that you may then reject the writings of Mani if you find Christ's promise fulfilled apart from the writings of Mani—although you ought to have answered my questions first—nevertheless, see, I answer first myself, and I show you when the Holy Spirit was sent whom Christ promised.

(And he goes to the Gospel and to the Acts of the Apostles.)

3. And when he had taken the book of the Gospel, he read aloud: Now while they were saying these things, Jesus stood in their midst and said to them, Peace be with you; it is I, do not be afraid. And as he read, he said: This was after the resurrection. And when he had said this, he read: But they were startled and frightened, and supposed that they saw a spirit. And he said to them, Why are you troubled, and why do questionings rise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still disbelieved and wondered for joy, he said, Have you anything here to eat? And they offered him a piece of broiled fish and some honeycomb. And when he had eaten before them, taking what was left he gave it to them, and said to them, These are the words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms. Then he opened their minds so that they might understand the Scriptures; and he said to them, Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary that the Christ should suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. And I will send the promise of my Father upon you; but stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high (Luke 24:36-49).

And when he had returned the book of the Gospel, he took up the Acts of the Apostles and said: We have heard in the Gospel that the holy Evangelist recorded the promise of Christ, which is in the Gospel according to John, whom Felix here has mentioned. For where the Lord said, I send you the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete (John 16:7), John the Evangelist wrote it. But what I have just read, Luke the Evangelist attested, and it agrees with the truth of the apostle John. Let us also see how what the Lord promised was accomplished, and how it was fulfilled; so that, when the fulfillment of the Lord's promise has been set forth from the canonical books of the holy Church, we may not look for another Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, lest we fall into the snares of seducers.

4. And he read aloud from the Acts of the Apostles: In the first book, O Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach, on the day when he chose the apostles through the Holy Spirit and commanded them to preach the Gospel; to whom he presented himself alive after his passion by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking of the kingdom of God, and how he lived with them. And he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, you heard from my mouth; for John baptized with water, but you shall begin to be baptized with the Holy Spirit, whom you are also to receive not many days from now, at Pentecost. So when they had come together, they asked him, saying, Lord, will you at this time present the kingdom to Israel? But he said, No one can know the time that the Father has fixed by his own authority; but you shall receive the power of the Holy Spirit coming upon you, and you shall be my witnesses at Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the whole earth. When he had said these things, a cloud took him up, and he was lifted up from them. And as they were gazing while he went into heaven, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, who said to them, Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up into heaven from you, will come in the same way as you saw him going into heaven.

So one of the men who accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus Christ went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us, must become with us a witness to his resurrection. And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also called Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed and said, You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two you have chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside, to go to his own place. And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was enrolled with the eleven apostles as the twelfth (Acts 1:1-26).

And when he had read, he said: We have heard who was ordained in the place of Judas the betrayer, which I mentioned a little while ago, so that no one may creep in by fraud into the number of the apostles and deceive the ignorant under the name of apostleship.

5. Now let us see what we promised, how Christ's promise concerning the Holy Spirit was fulfilled. And when he had said this, he read in the passage: When the day of Pentecost was completed, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a violent wind rushing along, and it filled the whole house in which they were sitting. And there appeared to them divided tongues as of fire, which also rested upon each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in various tongues, as the Spirit gave them to utter. Now there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, men from every nation under heaven. And when this sound was made, the crowd gathered and was confused, because each one heard them speaking in his own language and his own tongue. And they were amazed and astonished, saying to one another, Are not all these who are speaking Galileans by birth? And how is it that we recognize among them the language in which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and those who dwell in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya around Cyrene, and the visiting Romans, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs, we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God (Acts 2:1-11).

And when he had read it aloud, he said: Have you now heard how the Holy Spirit was sent? I have proved what you demanded of me; it remains for you also to do what you promised. Since we have found when he sent the Holy Spirit whom he promised, reject that writing which, under the name of the Holy Spirit, sought to defraud either the reader or the hearer.

6. Felix said: I do not deny what I said, that when it has been proved to me that the Holy Spirit taught the truth that I seek, I reject that writing. For Your Holiness read this to me, the passage where the apostles received the Holy Spirit, and among those apostles I seek one who will teach me about the beginning, the middle, and the end.

Augustine said: If you read that the Lord said this, I send you the Holy Spirit, who is to teach you the beginning, the middle, and the end, you would rightly bind me to show whom the Holy Spirit taught.

Felix said: Since Your Holiness says this, that the apostles themselves received the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, I say again: from among the apostles themselves let whichever one you wish teach me what Mani taught me, or let whichever of the twelve you wish set aside his teaching.

Augustine said: Far be it from the faith of the apostles that they should teach the doctrine of the sacrilegious Mani. But since you say that one of them ought to set aside the teaching of Mani, and yet the holy apostles are now not in the body, I, the least not only of all the apostles but of all the bishops (for when do I aspire to the merits of the apostles?), insofar as the Lord has deigned to grant me of his own Spirit, set aside the teaching of Mani, once the rest of that letter has begun to be read, which you yourself do not deny to be Mani's.

Felix said: You said that the apostles have departed from the body, yet their writings are valid even now; and since Your Holiness said it, and since you gave permission to say what we wished without any fear, you said, I set aside the law of Mani; and I say: Every man is a liar, God alone is true (Ps 116:11 (115:2); Rom 3:4); the Scriptures of God speak.

7. Augustine said: You indeed are a man, and, as the matter itself is about to show, a liar. And since you have spoken what you wished, not from the Scripture of God, I too must speak what I wish. For if your Mani has the truth, it cannot be destroyed by me; if it is falsehood, what does it matter by whom it is destroyed? Yet since you spoke of the writings of the apostles, that even though they are not in the body, their writings are here: the apostles were taken up before the error of Mani was born into the world; for this reason the writings of the apostles are not found arguing explicitly against Mani. Nevertheless, that the apostle Paul, in that Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, whom he had received, foresaw what was to come concerning such people as Mani was, and as you too are, I read aloud, so that you may recognize it.

And taking up the Letter of the apostle Paul to Timothy, he read: Now the Spirit expressly says that in the last times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons, through the hypocrisy of liars whose conscience is seared, who forbid marriage and enjoin abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful and by those who have known the truth; for every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be rejected that is received with thanksgiving, for it is sanctified through the word of God and prayer. If you teach the brethren these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ (1 Tim 4:1-6).

And when he had read it, he said: I say that this, concerning you and such as you who say that some creature of God is unclean, and who say that all intercourse, even that which takes place with a wife, is fornication—for this is what he means by forbidding marriage—was designated and expressed through the Spirit of prophecy. But if you deny that all intercourse is fornication, or if you say that all human food permitted and granted to people to eat is clean, then you are not among those of whom the Apostle prophesied. But if you are found among those of whom I have spoken, see, you have the apostle Paul destroying and setting aside the teaching of the Mani who was to come. So answer what I ask: Is all intercourse fornication, or is intercourse with a wife not a sin?

8. Felix said: Let what the Apostle said be read aloud to me again.

And it was read aloud: Now the Spirit expressly says that in the last times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons, through the hypocrisy of liars whose conscience is seared, who forbid marriage and enjoin abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful and by those who have known the truth; for every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be rejected that is received with thanksgiving, for it is sanctified through the word of God and prayer. If you teach the brethren these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ (1 Tim 4:1-6).

Felix said: Mani did not depart from the faith, as Paul says, in the way that others departed from the faith into a sect of their own; but Mani departed from no sect, such that it could be said that he departed from the faith.

Augustine said: Since I see that you are unwilling to answer what you are asked, lest you be found either not to hold the Holy Spirit, whom we have already proved was sent to the apostles, or not to be among the number of those whom Paul designated as to come, where he also prophesied of you yourselves—I answer briefly: To take what you said according to your own understanding, They will depart from the faith—since none depart from the faith except those who were in some faith, while Mani was in no faith from which he might depart, but remained in the one in which he was—this I ask you: whether Mani, or rather the teaching of the lying demons that was in Mani, did not seduce any Catholic Christians, so that they departed from the faith. For if many are seduced by you, and through you, and through that teaching, so that they depart from the faith and give heed to deceitful spirits, such as was in Mani, and begin to say that all intercourse is fornication—whence the Apostle says, forbidding marriage—and begin to say that the flesh which people eat is not God's creature but a thing made by demons, and is an uncleanness, then it is manifest that the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, who was in the apostle Paul, foretold concerning these people that they were going to depart from the faith, giving heed to deceitful spirits, such as was in Mani.

Now, then, since I have answered, it is just that you answer what I have asked—whether you would not say that all intercourse is fornication; or, if you are unwilling to answer this, answer what I first asked, namely, to prove that Mani is an apostle of Christ; or, if you are unwilling to do this either, permit me to set aside his teaching, which I promised to do when his letter, which you call The Foundation, was being read.

9. Felix said: I answer to what Your Holiness says, that the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, came in Paul.

Augustine said: Not in him alone.

Felix said: I am dealing with him; because if he is in him, he is also in all. And if he is in him—for Paul says in another Letter: We know in part, and we prophesy in part; but when that which is perfect has come, the things that were said in part will be done away (1 Cor 13:9-10). When we heard Paul say this, Mani came with his preaching, and we received him according to what Christ said: I send you the Holy Spirit (John 16:7). And Paul came and said that he too was to come, and afterward no one came; therefore we received Mani. And because Mani came, and through his preaching taught us the beginning, the middle, and the end; he taught us about the fabric of the world, why it was made, and from what it was made, and who made it; he taught us why there is day and why there is night; he taught us about the course of the sun and the moon; because we did not hear this in Paul, nor in the writings of the other apostles, we believe this, that he is the Paraclete.

And so I say again what I said above: if I hear in another writing, where the Paraclete speaks, that is, the Holy Spirit, about what I wish to ask, and you teach me, I believe and renounce.

10. Augustine said: You say that you do not believe the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, was in the apostle Paul, because Paul says: For we know in part, and we prophesy in part (1 Cor 13:9); and from this you suppose that the Apostle, by these words, foretold that, as it were, another was to come after him, who would preach all the things that he himself could not, because he spoke in part; and this one you believe to be Mani.

First, then, from the very reading of the Apostle, I show why the Apostle said this. Next, since you said that Mani taught you the beginning, the middle, and the end, and how or why the world was made, and about the course of the sun and the moon, and the other things you have mentioned: it is not read in the Gospel that the Lord said, I send you the Paraclete to teach you about the course of the sun and the moon. For he wished to make Christians, not astronomers. It is enough that people know about these things, as far as they have learned in school, for human purposes. But Christ said that the Paraclete was to come who would lead into all truth; yet he does not there say, the beginning, the middle, and the end; he does not say, the course of the sun and the moon. Or if you suppose this teaching belongs to that truth which Christ promised through the Holy Spirit, I ask you how many stars there are. If you have received that Spirit of which you speak, to whom it belongs to teach these things, which I say do not pertain to Christian discipline and teaching, you ought to renounce and answer me.

For you have made yourself a debtor, so that if I ask anything about such matters and you do not answer, that Spirit does not appear in you of whom it was said, He will lead into all truth (John 16:13)—if that is the truth to which these things pertain. So choose for yourself whether you wish and are prepared to answer me about these matters, as a man who has received the Spirit who leads into all truth, and you say that it pertains to that very truth to know these worldly things. So I can tell you the things that pertain to Christian teaching; but you, who suppose that it pertains to it how the world was made, and what is done in the world, must answer me about everything. But clearly, when you have answered, you are going to prove it. But before you begin to speak, in case you happen to have something that the man you followed has fabricated, let me first teach what I promised, namely, why the Apostle said, We know in part, and we prophesy in part.

11. For he was saying, as the reading itself will soon show, that while a person is in this life, he cannot attain all things, but attains in part in this life; while the Holy Spirit himself, who teaches in part in this life, will, after this life, lead into all truth. And that this may be taught most plainly, hear the Apostle.

And as he spoke, he read from the Apostle: But whether there are prophecies, they will be done away; or tongues, they will cease; or knowledge, it will be done away; for we know in part, and we prophesy in part; but when that which is perfect has come, that which is in part will be done away. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I did away with the things of a child. For now we see through a mirror in an enigma, but then face to face (1 Cor 13:8-12).

And when he had read, he said: Now tell me this: if the Apostle was foretelling the future times of Mani, do you now see God face to face?

12. Felix said: I cannot do much against your power, for the episcopal rank is a wondrous power; and besides, against the laws of the emperors; and earlier I asked, by way of summary, that you teach me what truth is; and if you teach me what truth is, it will be evident that what I hold is falsehood.

Augustine said: It has become apparent that you could not prove Mani to be an apostle of Christ; and why you could not, I briefly explain. You said that you proved Mani to be an apostle of Christ on this ground: that Christ promised that the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, would come; and that, since you could not find when he came whom Christ promised, you therefore believed that this one was Mani. But when I proved through the holy, ecclesiastical, canonical Scriptures, most plainly, when the Holy Spirit came whom the Lord Christ promised would come, you turned and said that it ought to be shown you what he taught, and whether he set aside the teaching of Mani. So when I had answered that Mani came after the apostles in the flesh, and that their teaching had been preached by them before Mani was born, I said nevertheless that one of those apostles, Paul, through the Holy Spirit who had come upon all the apostles, prophesied also concerning this teaching of yours, that it was to come, and called it the teaching of lying demons; and there I showed that the things Paul said would be in that teaching pertain to your profession, namely, the forbidding of marriage—because you say that all intercourse, even with a wife, is fornication—and abstinence from foods that God created—because I know that you call certain foods unclean, although he goes on and says, Every creature of God is good (1 Tim 4:4).

When I demanded here that you answer, you said that Mani teaches you the beginning, the middle, and the end, and the course of the sun and the moon, and other such things, which, when I showed that they do not pertain to Christian teaching, you answered that the apostle Paul himself said that he knows in part and prophesies in part. I said that we cannot know divine things while we are in this life, and here see through a mirror and in an enigma, but then face to face; and I asked you, if you suppose the apostle Paul said this—that Mani was to come who would teach what Paul could not, and that it pertains to you, who say you have received that same Spirit, to see God now face to face. Since you cannot do this, it is manifest that the apostle Paul spoke of that life of which John too says: Beloved, we are children of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be; but we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is (1 John 3:2).

When you had heard this, you said that you were not strong against my power; which power is not mine, but if there is any, it was given me by him for refuting errors—the power that belongs to all his faithful who presume concerning him with a full heart. You said also that episcopal authority terrifies you; though you see with what peace we conduct ourselves between us, with what tranquillity we debate, how the people present do you no violence, strike no terror into you, but listen most calmly, as befits Christians.

You said also that you fear the laws of the emperors; one whom the Holy Spirit filled would not fear this for the sake of the true faith. For the apostle Peter too feared during the Lord's passion, and denied him three times; but when the Paraclete, whom Christ had promised, the Holy Spirit, filled him, he was crucified for the faith of the Lord; and he who at first had the denial of fear afterward fulfilled the most glorious passion of confession. You, therefore, from this very thing—that you said you fear the laws of the emperors—although it is sufficiently apparent from other matters as well, show that you have not found the Paraclete, the Spirit of truth; for even if you did not fear, you would be convicted by other things.

Felix said: The apostles too were afraid.

Augustine said: They were afraid so as to take precautions, not so as to hesitate, when arrested, to declare their faith. But you ought to have been afraid earlier, so that we would not find you here; now you are in the midst of us; why are you afraid, unless because you have nothing to say? For if you had feared the emperors, you would have kept silent beforehand.

But now, since yesterday you gave a petition to the Curator and publicly cried out that you were prepared to be burned along with your books if anything evil were found in them: whence is it that yesterday you demanded the laws as though brave, and today you flee the truth like a coward?

13. Felix said: I do not flee the truth.

Augustine said: Say, then, whether you see God face to face, according to your promise; for you said that the apostle Paul said of you that you were to receive truth so full—so that we may understand, or believe, that the Apostle had it in part, and you in whole.

Felix said: I do not flee the truth, but I seek the truth. What you say, that I do not hold it, let it be proved to me through the divine Scriptures; this is what I now ask.

Augustine said: First confess that you could not prove Mani to be an apostle of Jesus Christ; and, as far as I am able, when all the contrary things have been rooted out of your heart through my ministry, by the Lord's gift, I will instill in you what the knowledge of the truth is, which leads to God, beginning from faith.

Felix said: Since you say this, that I should deny my law and accept another—a better one, at least, which is what I seek—I do not answer in such a way as to deny my law before I accept another.

Augustine said: But first what a vessel holds that is harmful is poured out, and so what is good is poured in; or, if you still hesitate to pour it out, defend that with which you are full. For I will show you, as far as the Lord helps me, how full of uncleanness and blasphemies the teaching of Mani is, if you permit that letter to be read, whose beginning we have already discussed, and you could not prove Mani to be an apostle of Christ; but for this reason you contrive delays, so that the rest may not be read, where your sacrileges are plainly detected; or, if you permit it, let them be read.

Felix said: I permit it; since you said that all unclean things are poured out, and so good things are poured in—for this was said by Your Holiness. To which I too say: No one pours out water unless another has filled it.

Augustine said: See how inconsiderately you have spoken—to put it mildly, and not to call it insane. I certainly set before you the likeness of a vessel; no one can put anything into a full vessel unless that with which it was full is poured out.

Felix said: You spoke of one, and I spoke of two.

Augustine said: If you spoke of two vessels, do you wish us to pour out that one, your equal, and fill it, so that you can pour out what you have?

Felix said: We both have one water.

Augustine said: Since, then, you are both full of your own water, what shall we pour in, to teach you, unless one of you pours out what he has? Or, if it is good, and therefore that letter ought to be held so that it may be defended and read, let us see whether even the rest can be defended, if you have failed at its very beginning; or, if you say that you have not failed in that, prove to us how Mani is an apostle of Christ.

14. Felix said: Christ said that he would send the Holy Spirit, who would lead into all truth.

Augustine said: If you have him, attend to what I asked you a while ago. For you said that it pertains to his teaching to know also these worldly things; tell me how many stars there are, if you have been led into all that truth.

Felix said: And I say that, if the Paraclete spoke through the apostles, and through Paul, then I ask Your Holiness to show me those things that I have already mentioned.

Augustine said: Confess that you could not show what I asked, and I will show, according to the Scriptures, what pertains to the Christian faith.

Felix said: And I, if you bring me the writings of Mani, the five authors I told you of, will prove to you whatever you ask me.

Augustine said: This letter is from those very five authors—we have opened its beginning, and we found written there, Mani, an apostle of Jesus Christ; and I see that you do not expound that very beginning to me, because you do not prove how Mani is an apostle of Jesus Christ.

Felix said: If I do not prove it in this one, I prove it in the second.

Augustine said: In what second?

Felix said: In the Treasury.

Augustine said: This Treasury, which you call by such a name precisely in order to seduce the wretched—who wrote it? Mani? I do not want you to prove it to me from him; for that Mani lies, by saying that he is what he is not.

Felix said: You prove it to me through another.

Augustine said: What do you want me to prove to you?

Felix said: That Mani lies.

Augustine said: Because you cannot prove that Mani speaks the truth, must I prove that Mani lied?

Felix said: Why could I not prove it? Have the writings that I asked for been brought forward, and I have not proved it?

Augustine said: But you ask for the writings of Mani, in which we place no trust; prove it from elsewhere. I, however, prove to you from the very writing of Mani that Mani lied and that Mani blasphemed.

Felix said: Let the books be brought.

Augustine said: The letter of Mani that you call The Foundation is present. There is no beginning in a building except the foundation; if I show that he has caused a collapse in the foundation itself, why do we look for the rest of his construction?

15. Felix said: You say this, showing that there is a collapse in it; and I say, give as many arbiters as you too have, and I will prove to you that he does not lie.

Augustine said: Far be it from us and from the human race that you should see here as many Manicheans as you see people.

Felix said: Give, I said, what I asked of you.

Augustine said: Whom, then, do you want me to give you?

Felix said: Whomever you wish.

Augustine said: I give these; if you have better ones, ask for them.

Felix said: How do you give these?

Augustine said: Those present who are listening to us.

Felix said: These do not favor me.

Augustine said: So you are looking for people who favor you, not who favor the truth?

Felix said: People who will hear me, and not only me, but the writing itself, so that it may be proved whether it speaks the truth or lies.

Augustine said: You see, then, that they are listening. Let us read the rest; for you have confessed that this is the letter of Mani.

Felix said: I do not deny it.

Augustine said: Then let it be read.

16. Felix said: I have no arbiters. And he added: Let its opening be read.

And when it was being read, and they had come to the place where the same letter has it written: May the peace of the invisible God and the knowledge of the truth be with his brothers and dearest ones, who believe in the heavenly commandments and likewise serve them; and may the right hand of light protect you and snatch you from every malign assault and from the snare of the world; and may the devotion of the Holy Spirit open the inmost parts of your breast, so that with your own eyes you may see your souls;

Felix said: Give the writing that refutes these things.

Augustine said: So far we have heard nothing evil, except that Mani dared to name himself an apostle of Christ. For the things he said still belong to the plaster of deceit and to the sheep's skin, by which they first speak good words so that they can introduce evil ones. But let us see what he means to introduce through these words. For if he introduces something evil, then these words too will be evil and seductive; but if he says something good and true in what follows, we will, of necessity, acknowledge it. Permit, then, the following to be read.

Felix said: If, then, you assert that good things are put first, and afterward evil things are slipped in, how can I believe you, when you have first told me good things?

Augustine said: So far I have called these things neither good nor evil. I said, We have heard nothing evil so far; I did not say, We have already heard something good. For the only evil I named is that he dared to call himself an apostle of Christ. But the words he said in what follows will then be evil, if they introduce something evil; they will then be good, if they introduce something good. Permit, then, the following to be read: why are you afraid?

Felix said: I am not afraid.

Augustine said: Permit them, then, to be read.

Felix said: Let them be read.

17. And when it was being read, and they had come to the place where it has it written: And his most splendid kingdoms were so founded upon the bright and blessed land that they can never be moved or shaken by anything;

Augustine said: This land that he mentions—where did he get it? Did he make it, or beget it, or was it equal and coeternal with him? I mean this bright and blessed land that he speaks of.

Felix said: How is it written: In the beginning God made heaven and earth, and the earth was invisible and able to be defiled and unformed (Gen 1:1-2)? I understand it thus: In the beginning God made heaven and earth, and the earth was; there seem to me to be, as it were, two earths, according to what Mani says about two kingdoms.

Augustine said: Since you have mentioned our Scripture, which you are accustomed to blaspheme, it falls to me to expound it and to show you that what is written is without blasphemy, and is in accordance with the truth and not according to Mani; so that then you may, at last, answer me what I asked.

Felix said: I answer.

Augustine said: As to what is written, In the beginning God made heaven and earth, Scripture has briefly comprehended what God made. Then, because this earth that he had made did not yet appear—before he distinguished and adorned it—what sort of earth God had made, the Scripture that follows expounded what sort of earth it was of which it had said, In the beginning God made heaven and earth; as if, when we had heard, In the beginning God made heaven and earth, and were asking what sort of earth, it added and said: But the earth, that is, the one that God had made, was invisible and unformed. He did not, then, speak of two earths, but expounded what sort that one was. So now answer me what I briefly asked: this bright and blessed land that Mani speaks of, upon which the kingdoms of God were founded—was it made by God himself, or was it begotten of him, or was it coeternal with him? Answer one of the three, if it is not troublesome, without evasion.

Felix said: Scripture interprets itself.

Augustine said: If, then, you know that there is some passage here where Scripture says this—that God either begot that land, or made it, or that it was coeternal with him—open to the passage you know, and read it to me.

Felix said: It is not in this writing, but in another.

Augustine said: I believe, then, that if there is some such writing, you remember what it said there. So you answer me, you who know that writing; and if I say that it does not have it so, you will convict me. But if I find it to be so, I argue according to what you yourself have answered. Say, then, whether God made this land, or begot it, or it was coeternal with him—you who have read in some book or other, where you say this is written.

Felix said: Since Your Holiness has just now interpreted your Scripture as you wished, and I have accepted it, you too accept from me whatever I say.

Augustine said: For the time being, as to what I asked, if nothing moves me against it, I accept it; but if something moves me, I make my objection known to you, so that you may answer it.

Felix said: I have not answered your statements.

Augustine said: Since it is first that you answer me what I asked, I have nevertheless arranged even to answer you first; perhaps it did not move you, and so you did not answer; perhaps it will not move me either, when you have answered. Answer, then, what I asked.

18. Felix said: I answer. And he added: You asked, then, about that land in which God dwells, whether it was made by him, or he begot it, or it is coeternal with him. And I say that, just as God is eternal, and there is with him nothing made, all is eternal.

Augustine said: He neither begot it, then, nor made it?

Felix said: No, but it is coeternal with him.

Augustine said: But if he had begotten it, it would not be coeternal with him.

Felix said: What is born has an end; what is unborn has no end.

Augustine said: Of whom, then, was he a father, or whose father was he, whom he just now named father? For if he had begotten nothing, he could not be a father.

Felix said: But there are other things that he begot.

Augustine said: Are those things that he begot, then, not coeternal with him, or are they too coeternal?

Felix said: Whatever God begot is coeternal with him.

Augustine said: Then you were in error in what you said above: Everything that is born has an end.

Felix said: For the time being, since I spoke according to the generation of the flesh, I was in error.

Augustine said: Having most modestly confessed your error, may you deserve to understand the truth.

Felix said: May God grant it.

Augustine said: Attend, then, now, so that you may begin to recognize the error of this writing. If the things that God begot are not coeternal with him, then that land which God did not beget, where all the things that God begot dwell, is better than the land you say was not begotten by him.

Felix said: All things are made equal to one another, both those he begot and those he did not beget, that is, that land where he dwelt.

Augustine said: What of the one who begot—is he equal to all those things, or is he greater than they?

Felix said: Both the one who begot, and those he begot, and where they are placed—all are equal.

Augustine said: They are, then, of one substance?

Felix said: Of one.

Augustine said: What God the Father is, this his sons are, and this that land is too?

Felix said: All are this one thing.

Augustine said: Of this land, then, he is not the father, but the inhabitant?

Felix said: Yes.

Augustine said: If he neither begot it nor made it, I do not see how it pertains to him except by mere proximity, as when someone has a good neighbor; and there will now be two things, both unbegotten, the land and the father.

Felix said: Rather, there are three: the unbegotten father, the unbegotten land, and the unbegotten air.

Augustine said: Is all this one substance?

Felix said: One.

Augustine said: And so founded that it can never be moved or shaken by anything?

Felix said: Being moved and being shaken differ.

Augustine said: Let them differ; but still, were they such that they could never be moved or shaken by anything?

Felix said: There is a difference between being moved and being shaken.

Augustine said: That is not what I am asking you about.

Felix said: But that is where you want to trap me.

Augustine said: Take it however you wish: being moved—could it be moved?

Felix said: I do not say that it could not be moved, but being moved is a difference.

Augustine said: But I said it thus: neither moved nor shaken. I did not say, It can indeed be moved, but it cannot be shaken; or, It can indeed be shaken, but it cannot be moved; rather, I said both things, that it can neither be moved nor shaken.

Felix said: As to both things, there is a difference between being moved and being shaken.

19. Augustine said: Let us read, then, what follows, and let us see whether this God, who had his kingdoms founded upon the bright and blessed land, which can never be moved or shaken by anything, feared no one—as it was fitting that he should fear no one, whose kingdoms were so founded that they could be neither moved nor shaken by anything.

And he read what follows: But beside one part and side of that illustrious and holy land.

And as he read, he asked: Which side? The right, or the left?

Felix said: I cannot interpret this writing for you and expound what is not there; it is its own interpreter; I cannot speak, lest I perhaps fall into sin.

Augustine said: Let what follows, then, be read.

And as he read, and they had come to the place where it has: But the Father of the most blessed light, knowing that a great ruin and devastation, which would rise up from the darkness, was threatening to fall upon his holy ages, unless he should set against it some surpassing and illustrious power, mighty in strength, by which he might at once overcome and destroy the race of darkness, which being extinguished, perpetual rest would be prepared for the inhabitants of the light.

Augustine said: Now, since open blasphemies have begun, if you think them defensible, say what harm this race of darkness, which God seems to have feared—lest a great ruin and devastation from the darkness should rush into his kingdoms—could do to God; especially as you said above that his kingdoms were so founded that they could never be moved or shaken by anything. What, then, was this race going to do to him? Could it harm him, or could it not? Answer one of the two.

Felix said: I answer: If there is nothing against God, according to what the writing of Mani said—that there is another kingdom—for what reason was Christ sent, to free us from the snare of this death? Whose is this snare and death? If there is no adversary against God, why have we been baptized? Why the Eucharist, why Christianity, if there is nothing against God?

Augustine said: Since I see that you are unwilling to answer what I ask you, and that you ask me to answer you—and I do not refuse this, provided you remember that I answer you when you ask, whereas you were unwilling to answer me when I asked—but since you have asked me, hear the answer to what you asked. We, indeed, say that Christ the liberator has come, and we say that we are freed from our sins, because we are not begotten of the substance of God but made by God through his Word. Now there is a great difference between what is born of the substance of God and what is made by God and is not of the substance of God. Whatever, then, God made can be mutable; but God himself is not mutable, for works cannot be made equal to their maker and founder. But you, who a little while ago said, in answer to my question, that both the Father who begot the sons of light there, and the air, and the land itself, and the sons themselves are of one substance and are all equal, must tell me how the race of darkness could harm this substance, which is surely incorruptible. For if it could harm it, it was not an incorruptible nature; but if it could not, there was no reason why he should wage battle and send hither that power he speaks of.

Felix said: I ask for a delay, so that I can answer.

Augustine said: When? Is a recess until tomorrow enough?

20. Felix said: Give me a recess of three days, that is, today, and tomorrow, and the day after, or until the day that is after the Lord's day, that is, the day before the ides of December.

Augustine said: I see that you have asked for a delay in order to answer; it is human that it be granted you; but if you cannot answer by the appointed day, what will happen?

Felix said: I will be defeated.

Augustine said: What if you flee?

Felix said: I will be a guilty defendant before this city, and everywhere, and before my own law.

Augustine said: Rather, say this: If I flee, let me be regarded as though I had anathematized Mani.

Felix said: I cannot say this.

Augustine said: Then tell us openly that you are thinking of fleeing, and no one holds you.

Felix said: I am not fleeing.

Augustine said: As I see it, you do not wish to leave as though defeated; but at least say this: If I flee, I am defeated.

Felix said: I have said it.

Augustine said: And how will it be evident that you have fled, on the basis of the proceedings?

Felix said: Order that I be with whomever I choose.

Augustine said: Choose for yourself one of these brothers present, who stand at the rail.

Felix said: Let me be with the one who is in the middle.

Augustine said: As you have chosen for yourself, you will be with him until the day.

Felix said: Yes, and I consent to this.

Boniface said: Christ will grant that, if I come with him, he is a Christian.

I, Augustine, bishop of the Catholic Church of Hippo Regius, have subscribed to these proceedings in church before the people.

I, Felix, a Christian, an adherent of the law of Mani, have subscribed to these proceedings in church before the people.

1. When the appointed day had come, that is, the day before the ides of December, the matter began to be conducted thus in the Church of Peace.

Augustine, bishop of the Catholic Church of the region of Hippo Regius, said: A while ago, when we were holding our discussion, you remember that you asked for a delay, since you could not answer on the spot what I had asked. If, then, over so wide a span of time—after five days, that is—you have thought out anything, answer. For this is what I had then asked: If nothing could harm God, why did he wage war with the race you call darkness, in which war he would mingle his own substance, which is what he himself is (as you said when asked), with the nature of demons? But if it could harm him, then you do not worship an incorruptible God, such as the truth and apostolic teaching attest.

Felix said: From the time I left Your Holiness, so that I might return on the appointed day to answer your question, whatever you might wish to ask, the day has come; and because I had no writing in my hands, since the ones from which I could instruct myself were not returned to me—for no one goes out to a contest unless he has first been trained as a soldier, and no litigant can litigate without his documents; likewise I too cannot answer without my writing.

Augustine said: You thought out this evasion over so great a span of days, an evasion that can in no way help you, who in a lost cause and a sacrilegious error have nothing to answer. For it is known to all who were present, whom I see present even now, that you asked only for a delay of days; whereas you ought also to have asked for the books, when you asked for the delay, if you supposed you could be instructed by them so as to answer; which you did not do. I know that you asked for the books, not indeed to inspect them for instruction, but this was long before you asked for the delay; whereas when you asked for the delay, you made no mention of the books being returned to you and inspected, so that you might be better instructed.

Felix said: I now ask for the books; let them be returned to me, and I come to the contest after two days; and if I am defeated, I submit to whatever you decide.

Augustine said: I do not think you are a novice in that wicked sect, which you also admit. But that you have nothing to answer, even if you do not admit it, everyone now sees. Yet since you ask back for your books, which are kept under public seal, and say that, once you have inspected them, you can come back instructed after two days—recall what is already established, that you could not answer the questions put to you. But take your books, and say what you want brought forth from them, that you may now inspect and answer.

Felix said: All the writings that were taken from me. For this is the letter of The Foundation, as Your Holiness too well knows, and as I too said, that it contains the beginning, the middle, and the end. Let it be read, and let whatever evil is charged against my law be proved; and I disown it, if those charges brought against my law are proved.

Augustine said: Since you admit that this is the letter in which the beginning, the middle, and the end of your teaching is contained, how sacrilegious this beginning is—where you say that God fought against the race of darkness and mingled, with the nature of demons, a part of himself, which is what he himself is, to be polluted and bound—is so sacrilegious that it can scarcely be borne by those who hear it. This is what is charged first against your sect, whether you call it the beginning, the middle, or the end—I do not much care about that. But you do not deny that this was read from this letter, which you admit to be Mani's; this is charged against you, defend this, if you can, that we may come to other matters. So I ask again: if you worship an incorruptible God, what harm could be done to him by some adverse race or other that you imagine? If nothing could harm him, there was no reason why he should mingle a part of himself with the nature of demons. But if it could harm him, then you do not worship an incorruptible God.

2. Felix said: Mani says that there are two natures, and he is now blamed for this, because he said that there are two, a good one and an evil one. Christ in the Gospel says that there are two trees: A good tree never bears bad fruit, and a bad tree never bears good fruit (Matt 7:18). Behold two natures. Then it is written in the Gospel: Did you not sow good seed in your field? Where, then, did the weeds come from? This an enemy has done (Matt 13:27-28). If this enemy is not foreign to God, let it be proved to me; if this enemy belongs to God, what sort of seed did he sow? Again it is written in the Gospel, with Christ saying that in the last times he will place a throne in the midst of the age, and will send his angels to the east and the west, the north and the south, and will gather all the nations before him, and will separate them, as a shepherd separates the lambs from the kids. And, to put it briefly, to the lambs he will say: Go into the kingdom that has been prepared for you from the foundation of the world. To the kids, who are on the left side, he will say: Depart from me, you who have worked iniquity—for you have had my name, but you did not do the works—go into the eternal fire, which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (Matt 25:31-41). Who are those who have the name of Christ and are sent into the eternal fire with the devil and his angels; and to what side do these belong, with whom Christ is not mingled, and yet they bear his name? For this is what Mani says, that those whom Christ condemns are not his.

For the apostle Paul says: The prudence of the flesh is hostile to God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can it be (Rom 8:7). This is what Mani says, that what is hostile to God does not belong to God; but if it belongs to God, then he made an enemy for himself: this Mani does not say. Again Paul says: The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, that they should not behold the brightness of the Gospel of Christ, who is the image of God (2 Cor 4:4). The same Paul again says: A thorn of the flesh was given to me, an angel of Satan, to buffet me day and night; for which I asked the Lord three times that it might depart from me; and he said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for power is proved in weakness (2 Cor 12:7-9). Behold what the Apostle said, behold what the Evangelist said; while Mani asserts that the one who warred against God is foreign to God—whether because Christ was crucified, or because all the apostles were, for the sake of God's commandment. This one who crucified them, to whom God's commandment is not pleasing—let Your Holiness tell me whether he belongs to God.

3. Augustine said: You have chosen to bring up the holy Scriptures, which, by not understanding them, you stray far from the truth, as though seeking from them a defense for your empty talk. Yet among all the passages you have brought up—some as they are truly written, some otherwise than they are written—you have nowhere been able to show that God, wishing to repel a hostile nature threatening his kingdoms, so that he might have rest, mingled a part of himself, which is what he himself is, with the contrary nature of demons, and caused it to be bound and contaminated by them. But this is what is charged against you; and, not finding what to answer to it, you have brought up chapters of the divine Scriptures where it is said of sinners that they do not belong to the blessed life that God gives to the good and faithful; and you wished these to be taken as, so to speak, two natures, according to the ravings of Mani.

But the truth says that all these things we see and do not see, which subsist by nature, were made by God; and that among them the rational creature, itself also made—whether in angels or in human beings—received free choice; by which free choice, if it should be willing to serve God, according to the will and law of God, it would have eternal happiness with him; but if it should be unwilling to be subject to his law, and, using its own power, should act against his command, it would lie under the punishment it deserved, according to his justice. This is the omnipotence of God in creating all things; this is his justice in requiting sinners. But that there is free choice, and that thereby each one sins if he wills, and does not sin if he does not will, I prove not only from the divine Scriptures, which you do not understand, but even from the words of your own Mani. For, hemmed in, he sees the power of truth, against which he had tried to introduce another nature, which God did not make, against God—not by solid truth, but by an empty phantasm; yet, in confessing the truth about free choice, the human nature in which God made him had more force in him than the sacrilegious fable that he himself made up for himself.

4. Hear, then, about free choice: first, the Lord himself, where he mentions the two trees, of which you yourself made mention; hear him saying: Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad (Matt 12:33). When, then, he says, Either make this, or make that, he indicates power, not nature. For no one but God can make a tree; but each one has it in his will either to choose what is good, and to be a good tree, or to choose what is evil, and to be a bad tree—not that the evil things themselves that are chosen have any substance in themselves, but because God created all the things that he founded in their own degrees, and distinguished them by kinds, heavenly and earthly, immortal and mortal, and founded all things good in their own kind; and he placed the soul, which has free choice, below himself and above the rest, so that, if it served the higher, it would have dominion over the lower; but if it offended the higher, it would feel punishment from the lower.

So the Lord, in saying, Either make this, or make that, showed that it was in their power what they should make, while he himself was secure and certain in himself, as God; and that if they chose good, they would receive his reward, and if they chose evil, they would feel his punishment: but he is always just, either as rewarder or as condemner.

5. Hear, then, now how Mani himself—so perverse, so proud that, by introducing another nature, he would make himself equal to God and bring God down to himself—nevertheless confessed that there is free choice. In your Treasury, to which you gave such a name in order to deceive people, he certainly speaks thus, as you yourself also know: But those who, by their negligence, have by no means allowed themselves to be purified from the corruption of the aforesaid spirits, and have but little obeyed the divine commandments in full, and have been unwilling to keep more fully the law given them by their liberator, and have not governed themselves as was fitting, and so on.

You see that in these words free choice is confirmed, even by one who did not know what he was saying. For he who is unwilling to keep the law, it is in his power, if he wills. For he did not say, They could not; but, they were unwilling.

This, certainly—that they are unwilling to keep the law—they are not compelled to by the race of darkness; for if they are compelled, they are not unwilling, but unable; but if they are unwilling, they are surely not compelled not to do it, but they are unwilling by their own will. This, then, which is in their will, that they are unwilling, is certainly a sin without any necessity from the race of darkness.

Acknowledge that this is a sin without necessity from the race of darkness; and from there you see whence all faults come, whence the deserts of faults, whence the distributions of punishments.

6. You have this also in the apocryphal writings, which the Catholic canon does not indeed admit, but which are all the weightier for you, the more they are excluded from the Catholic canon. Let me bring up something from there too, by whose authority I am not bound, but by which you are convicted. In the Acts written by Leucius, which he writes as though they were the Acts of the Apostles, you have it put thus: For indeed beautiful figments, and feigned ostentation, and the compulsion of visible things, do not proceed even from a proper nature, but from that man who became worse through himself by seduction. See how here he says both through himself and through seduction. For the seducer of man was the devil, not a sinner by nature, but a sinner first by will. But because it was in man's power not to consent to the seducer, therefore it is put both through himself and through seduction; so that in what is put, through himself, you may understand free choice; but in what is put, through seduction, you may understand the devil, not an oppressor of the unwilling, but a tempter of the willing.

7. Accordingly, since I have answered, and have proved, as far as I could, that the things written in the holy books about sinners and the righteous pertain not to a diversity of natures but to a distinction of deserts—in which deserts it is not nature that makes necessity, but will that makes the fault—you answer what I have already asked: If nothing could harm God, why did he mingle a part of himself, his own substance, that which he himself is, to be polluted and bound, with demons—which you could find in no canonical divine Scripture? But if it could harm him, then you do not worship an incorruptible God, of whom the Apostle says: But to the King of the ages, immortal, invisible, incorruptible, to God alone be honor and glory forever and ever (1 Tim 1:17). Likewise he says: God dwells in unapproachable light (1 Tim 6:16). Do not the saints approach that light, of whom it is written: Approach him, and be enlightened (Ps 34:5 (33:6))? Do not the saints approach that light, of whom it is said: Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God (Matt 5:8)? But because no one can approach it except him to whom God himself has granted to approach, therefore in itself it is unapproachable. For no one can approach it whom God has not willed to approach; but to whom he has granted it, that one will approach.

How, then, could that race of darkness approach the dwelling of God, where there is unapproachable light, which none approaches except him to whom God has granted it? Or, if it had received the gift from God to approach, it would not give that for storming the kingdom of God, and would not be afraid.

But if he had not given such a gift that it could approach, then he was secure in his kingdom, dwelling in unapproachable light; what could he fear from the race of darkness, so as to mingle with it a part of himself, his own substance, that which he himself is, to be bound, oppressed, contaminated, where it would not only be wretchedly held, but even foully purified?

For, as to how it is purified from there, you say what it is impious to hear; but to confound you, and perhaps to save you, we cannot keep silent. To purify the part of God from there, you say, in the ship of light, which you call the sun—doing injury to the Creator of the sun, and to the sun itself, which you say was made in this way—so great a foulness is performed there. For you say that God, placed there, turns his powers into males, to provoke the lusts of the female demons; and turns the same again into females, to provoke the lusts of the male demons; so that, when they cast lust upon the demons—inflamed by the forms fashioned by God—their members are relaxed, and so the part of God that had been bound up there escapes. You have dared to believe so great a reproach, so great a sacrilege, and you do not hesitate to preach it.

These are the middle parts of your teaching. But what is the end? What, except that God could not purify the whole? And because he could not, you say that he will make, as it were, a covering for the race of darkness, so that there may be condemned forever what could not be purified, and committed nothing of its own accord.

So it comes about that your god—not the true one, but a fictitious one, not established anywhere, but imagined in your heart—mingles a part of himself unhappily, purifies it foully, condemns it cruelly. Answer, then, to these things, and begin from what I said: why did God mingle this part of himself, which nothing could harm; or, if it could, how is he incorruptible?

8. Felix said: You assert that Mani is cruel for saying these things: what do we say of Christ, who said, Go into the eternal fire (Matt 25:41)?

Augustine said: He said this to sinners.

Felix said: Why were these sinners not purified?

Augustine said: Because they were unwilling.

Felix said: Because they were unwilling—is that what you said?

Augustine said: This is what I said, because they were unwilling.

Felix said: Why were they unwilling? Is there anyone who does not want to be cured? Is there anyone who does not want to be purified? Is there anyone who does not want to be enlightened? What sick person is there who does not want to come to health? If it is cruel that Mani said that some part of God, which could not purify itself, was bound in a clod; is it not cruel that Christ, who said, I came for the sake of sinners, now sends into the eternal fire those who bore his name? But, I suppose, they could not fulfill the commandments. If this is cruel, that too is more cruel. If that is more cruel, because God could not purify them and bound them in a clod—and it seems more cruel to send into the eternal fire those whom Christ could not purify—let Your Holiness explain this cruelty to me.

Augustine said: If you had either understood what I have already said, or admitted that you understood it (for perhaps, having nothing to say, you pretended not to understand what is plain), you would not say these things. For we have already said and proved through the divine Scriptures that there is free choice; and that God is the just judge of free choice, the rewarder of the faithful and of those who submit to him and wish to be healed, but the condemner of the proud and the impious. Since, then, he came to heal sinners, he heals, of course, those who confess their sins, he heals the penitent; but no one repents when another has sinned; rather, if repentance is just and truthful—whence the Lord himself says, I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance (Matt 9:13)—repentance itself indicates that whatever we may sin is not of an alien nature, but of our own will. For if, when one person sins, another repents, that is not prudent but insane repentance.

But according to you there are no sins. For the race of darkness does not sin, because it acts according to its own nature; the nature of light does not sin, because it is compelled to do what it does. You find, then, no sin that God condemns, you find no sin that repentance can heal. But if there is repentance, there is also fault; if there is fault, there is also will; if there is will in sinning, there is no nature that compels. But if those who cannot fulfill what they will suffer some infirmity—whence the apostle Paul says, I see another law in my members, fighting against the law of my mind, and taking me captive in the law of sin, which is in my members (Rom 7:23)—it is manifest that this came from the propagation of the first sin of Adam, and from evil habit.

For even today people form a habit by free will, which, once they have formed it, they cannot easily overcome; they themselves, then, have brought about for themselves, out of themselves, that a law dwells in their members against them. But those who conceive the fear of God, and through free choice submit themselves to be healed by the best physician—and, as to a good healer, so to a merciful creator—are healed through the humility of confession and repentance.

But the proud, saying that they are righteous, or by saying that they themselves do not sin, but that something else sins in them, and another nature sins out of them, become through their very pride even incurable, and experience the just judgment of God, who resists the proud but gives grace to the humble (See Jas 4:6). It is not unworthy, then, that God should say, Go into the eternal fire, to those who through free choice have rejected his mercy; and should say, Come, blessed of my Father, receive the kingdom (Matt 25:34), to those who through free choice have received his faith, have confessed their sins, have done penance, have been displeased with what they were, and have pleased him as those whom he has made.

So you now answer what I have asked; but let me obtain this from you, that we make no superfluous delays: If nothing could harm God, why did he send us here? If it could harm him, then God is not incorruptible.

9. Felix said: If nothing could harm God, why did he send his Son here?

Augustine said: See how you always ask questions, and are unwilling to answer what is asked. Hear the answer to what you have asked, but remember that you do not answer what I say, while I do answer. Nothing can harm God; but he sent his Son to be clothed in flesh, and to appear to human beings, to heal sinners, to suffer in that very flesh for us, which he took from us. For in his own nature he could suffer nothing; because in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John 1:1). In this nature, because the Word was God, he could suffer nothing. But that he might be able to suffer for us, the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us (John 1:14). The Word was made flesh by assuming flesh, not by being changed into flesh; for he assumed humanity, he did not lose divinity. And so the same is God and the same is man, in the nature of God equal to the Father, in the nature of man made mortal, among us, for us, of us, remaining what he was, taking up what he was not, that he might free what he had made, not what he was. The passion of Christ, then, is not from need, but from mercy. For he gave us an example of patience from us, that is, to man from man, to flesh from flesh; yet he himself was not made worse in that flesh, but the flesh was made better in him.

But the part of your god, with no flesh assumed (for there was no flesh in the race of darkness for which it might suffer), descended to be held, bound, polluted, and purified more foully than it was bound. For I have already spoken of its purification. The more unworthy all these things are, the easier they are, surely, to understand—that they do not befall the nature of God. And far be it from a pious and faithful mind to believe such things about God, the good God, the true God, as you believe—not the God you found, but the one you fashioned.

Answer now, then: If nothing could harm God—that pure substance of his, which, with no flesh assumed, was going to suffer in itself, if it was going to suffer anything, not in flesh which it had not taken up—why was it sent here, according to your empty talk?

10. Felix said: If nothing could harm God from the adverse part, and nothing could harm Christ from the adverse nature, to what did Christ come, to free it? Because, as you say, he came for the sake of our freedom: therefore we were in captivity. If we were held in captivity, and Christ came for this reason, to free us from captivity, then he who held us was either foreign to God, or a power of God. If he who held us was a power of God, why did the one who held us send Christ? If it was in his own choice when he wished to release us, why was Christ crucified? But it escapes no one that Christ was crucified. Why did they crucify him?

If he is a power of God, he did us no harm. If he was a power of God, we were not captives in his keeping, but, as it were, we were with our own prince, as a son with his parents, not as Romans with barbarians. It was not necessary, then—since we were established with the power of God—for God to send his Son, so that it could be said that our liberator came. If, then, it appears that we were established with the power of God, the Apostle said: Christ freed us from the curse of the Law, for it is written, Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree (Gal 3:13; Deut 21:23). For this is what the Apostle says. If this one who curses all who hang on a tree is a power of God—for Christ hung on a tree, and all his apostles who were given over for his command—who, then, is this one who curses everyone who hangs on a tree?

11. Augustine said: Those whom Christ redeemed from the devil were held by the devil through their own consent, and had been placed under his lot by the just judgment of God, since they had consented through free choice to him who seduced them. But just as it was in man's power to consent to the devil, so as to be made captive, so it was in the devil's own power, while he was an angel, to sin, so as to be changed for the worse.

An angel, then, a sinner through free choice, persuaded man, who had free choice, to sin; so that the devil, had he been unwilling, would not have sinned, and man, had he been unwilling, would not have consented. But since he was now held by the one to whom he had consented—not because the devil could do anything, but because it was the just judgment of God to give into the power of the devil the man who had despised the power of God over himself, and had been unwilling to obey his law—because, then, Christ thus found sinners under sin, since sin is in free choice, finding sinners under sin he redeemed those who confess, from the one who exalts himself.

But as to what is put in the Law, Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree (Deut 21:23)—whence the Apostle says, Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree (Gal 3:13; Deut 21:23)—he does not blame the Law, but commends mercy. For because Adam had sinned, and all that mass and offspring of sin was accursed; but the Lord willed to take up flesh from that very mass, so that by taking up the mortality that had come from punishment, he might dissolve death, which was coming from grace; therefore the Law says, Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree. For death itself was hanging on the tree, the death that was coming from the curse. As, then, by taking up death he slew death, so by taking up the curse he dissolved the curse. Whence the Apostle also says: Knowing that our old man was crucified together with him (Rom 6:6); for from our old man, that is, from the lot of death, which was coming from the desert of sin, he deigned to take up mortal flesh from the Virgin Mary, in which he might offer us an example both of passion and of resurrection: of passion, to strengthen repentance; of resurrection, to rouse hope; that he might show us two lives in the flesh, which he took up from our mortal life—one laborious, the other blessed; the laborious, which we must endure; the blessed, which we must hope for. We endure the laborious by the desert of our sin; but he showed it in his flesh, not by the desert of his own iniquity, but by the office of his mercy.

For, that you may know that the Law is good, which you wished to blame, the apostle Paul himself said in a certain place: The Law entered in, so that the offense might abound. He still seems to blame it; but hear what follows: But where the offense abounded, he says, grace abounded all the more (Rom 5:20). For the Law was given to proud people, who attributed everything to their own strength, so that, when they could not fulfill the Law given, they would be found transgressors, and, made guilty under the Law, would seek mercy from the Founder of the Law. Accordingly, a little later the same Apostle says: And so the law indeed is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good (Rom 7:12-13).

But, lest you say that he is speaking of another commandment, to show that he is speaking of the one of which he had said a little before, The Law entered in so that the offense might abound, he at once put a question to himself: Did then that which is good become death to me? Far be it: but sin, that it might appear as sin, worked death in me through what is good. For there was sin, but sin did not appear; the Law was given to the proud man, he acted against the Law, and the sin appeared, which was there but did not appear. But the sin, now appearing, humbled the proud man; the proud man, humbled, became penitent; from repentance, mercy was obtained.

You have heard, then, what you asked; answer what I ask: The race of darkness could do no harm to God; why did he send a part of himself here to be mingled with and polluted by the nature of demons?

12. Felix said: If we are in our own choice, let no one compel anyone; when I wish, I will be a Christian. The will is subject to us, either to be a Christian or not to be.

Augustine said: That the will lies within us is manifest, and I have taught this from the divine Scriptures; which even he who led you into this error was compelled to say, though unwilling. But as to what you say, Let no one be compelled; when I wish, I will be a Christian: plainly no one compels you; when you wish, be one; for of your own will you came here, and of your own will you have argued these things. And woe to an evil will, if it is evil; peace to a good will, if it is good. But whether it be evil or good, it is will. A crown follows a good will; punishment follows an evil one. God is the judge of wills, but the creator of natures. If, then, you suppose that you are being compelled to be a Christian, hear from us that you are not compelled at all. Rather, think over what you hear, weigh it; you are in your own will; examine, like a prudent man—if indeed there is in you any prudence, even human—whether the things that have been said are upheld by truth; whether you yourself have failed in the defense of your Mani, as it appears; and when you wish, be what you are not yet, and cease to be what you are.

13. Felix said: See, now, briefly, as Your Holiness said; lest we pile up documents, if it pleases you, what I asked a while ago—come to this, show me the truth, so that what I hold may appear not to be the truth, and you have me prepared to believe.

Augustine said: Indeed, what you hold sufficiently appears not to be the truth. For far be it from the hearts of those who seek or hold the truth to believe that God, compelled by necessity, plunged his own substance into the nature of demons to be bound and polluted. Far be it from the faithful to believe that God, to free his own substance, turns himself into males against females, and into females against males, to provoke their lust. Far be it from the faithful to believe that God afterward condemns forever his own substance, which he himself plunged into the demons. That this, then, is not the truth, is manifest. But because you wish the truth to be opened to you, now that this falsehood has been driven out and convicted, if anything still moves you concerning the knowledge of the Catholic faith, you can be instructed from the beginning of faith. For pious faith makes one fit for the perception of the unchangeable truth; and whoever is unwilling to begin from that faith will remain proud, outside, and cannot be led to that toward which he tends, or to which he wishes to come. But because that falsehood is now manifest, anathematize the falsehood, so that you can begin to be fit to know the truth.

14. Felix said: When it appears to me—because it does not appear to me, since the other has not been shown to me—I cannot anathematize.

Augustine said: Is the error that says God is corruptible to be anathematized, or is it not to be anathematized?

Felix said: Say it again.

Augustine said: Is the error that says God is corruptible to be anathematized, or is it not to be anathematized?

Felix said: Let it be inquired whether he says it.

Augustine said: This is what I asked: One who says that God is corruptible—is he to be anathematized, or not?

Felix said: One who says that God is corruptible is to be anathematized; is this what you charge against me?

Augustine said: This is what I ask.

Felix said: You say corruptible God, but not what you said at first, that he gave a part of himself to the adversaries?

Augustine said: For the time being, answer what I ask: One who says that God is corruptible—is he to be anathematized, or not?

Felix said: Very much so.

Augustine said: One who says that the nature and substance of God is corruptible—is he to be anathematized, or not?

Felix said: I did not understand what you said.

Augustine said: I say what every person understands who does not pretend not to understand: One who says that the nature and substance of God, that is, that very thing, whatever God is, is corruptible—is he to be anathematized, or not?

Felix said: He too is to be anathematized, if it has been proved to be true.

Augustine said: I have not yet said to you that Mani says the nature of God is corruptible; but I have said this to you, that whoever says this is to be anathematized.

Felix said: And I answered: Yes.

15. Augustine said: That part which is mingled with the race of darkness—is it of God's nature, or of some other nature?

Felix said: Of God's.

Augustine said: What is of God's nature—is it what God is, or something else that is not God?

Felix said: So it is: what is of God is God, according to what is written: The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it (John 1:5). For God is light, and there is no darkness in him (1 John 1:5).

Augustine said: You answered well, that whatever is of God's nature is God, and that God is light, and there is no darkness in him, and that such light shone in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. Let us see, then, whether Mani does not say that a part of God was comprehended by the darkness, and even held bound, and even stained and polluted, in such a way that it needs the mercy of a liberator and purifier. But if he says this, then according to you too, and according to your true confessions, he is to be anathematized; because he says that a part of God and the nature of God, which is God himself, was comprehended by the darkness, and bound, and polluted—which you yourself, speaking according to the Gospel, could not say; rather, you said the truth, that the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. Mani, then, is to be anathematized, who said that the light was darkened in the darkness, and that the darkness comprehended it.

Felix said: But the one who is polluted and held is also freed; and if we are polluted, we are cleansed.

Augustine said: But this is not rightly said of the nature of God; rather, of that which can be polluted it is rightly said that it is polluted and cleansed; but of that which cannot be polluted, you see with how great a sacrilege it is said, It is polluted and cleansed; especially because you say that a certain part of God is polluted in such a way that it is therefore bound forever in the clod of darkness, because it could not be cleansed. Whoever does not anathematize this answered falsely a little while ago, that everyone who says God is corruptible is to be anathematized.

16. Felix said: As to what Your Holiness said, that the part which did not cleanse itself from the defilement of the race of darkness—Mani too says that they were not sent into the kingdom of God. For you assert that they were condemned; but Mani says this, that they were not condemned, but were placed as a guard over that race of darkness.

Augustine said: I am dealing with you about that part which you say, being polluted, is purified; afterward, if need be, about that which is fixed in his clod. For the time being, what is purified was polluted.

Felix said: What is polluted is also cleansed.

Augustine said: One, then, who says that the nature of God and the substance of God, and that which God is, can be polluted, bound, defiled by the race of darkness—is he not to be anathematized?

Felix said: From what did Christ cleanse us? From what did he free us?

Augustine said: Christ freed not a part of God, not the nature of God; but the thing he made, falling into sin through free choice, he freed by his mercy. He cleansed that thing which could be polluted, he freed that thing which could be made captive, he healed that thing which could be made infirm. But now we are speaking of God, of the nature of God, of the substance of God, of that which God is: could it be polluted, or could it not?

17. Felix said: Our soul, which was polluted, is it of God? If it is not of God, why was Christ crucified for it? If, then, it appears that Christ was crucified for the sake of our soul, it appears that it is of God, and was polluted, and he himself cleansed it.

Augustine said: I say that not only the soul, but also our body and every creature, both spiritual and corporeal, is from God; for this is what the Catholic faith holds. But one thing is what God begot of himself, which is what he himself is; another is what God made. What God begot is equal to the Father; what God made—the thing founded is not equal to its founder. But we say that one thing is from God, which is better said to be of God, because it is what he himself is, as the only-begotten Son, as his Word through whom all things were made (See John 1:3); while we say that other things are from God in this sense, that he spoke, and they were made; he commanded, and they were established (See Ps 148:5).

Hence is the soul, from among those things that God made, not that which God begot of himself. Therefore the Word, which he begot of himself, could not be polluted, nor can be, nor ever will be.

But the soul, which he made to be the ruler of the body, so that it might serve the higher and have dominion over the lower—that is, serve God and have dominion over the body—when God's law was despised, was polluted through sin; but God, showing mercy to the things he made, sent the Son through whom he made them, and through him remade them.

When what was not had to be founded, it was founded through the Word; when what had been corrupted had to be remade, a creature was taken up for this from the Virgin Mary, so that, through that which was man, it might be shown to man both what must be endured and what must be hoped for.

And so the nature of the Word, the substance of the only-begotten Son of God, suffered nothing, either from the persecuting Jews or from the devil, the evil angel who persecuted him. But because he clothed himself in flesh, clothed himself in a mortal thing, a passible thing, a mutable thing, in that which he put on he suffered whatever he willed, as an example of patience, and reformed this as an example of righteousness.

Now you tell me about the part of God, which is God: whether it can be polluted, or not. If it can, then God is not unchangeable; and whoever says this is to be anathematized. But if it cannot, you see that Mani is to be anathematized, who says that a part of God, the nature of God, that which God is, came here pure to the race of darkness, bound and polluted, so that it needs to be loosed and cleansed.

18. Felix said: You said about the soul that it is not from God.

Augustine said: I did not say so; but I said that it is from God, as made by God, not as born of God.

Felix said: You said about the soul that it is not from God, but a thing made by God, since without God it is nothing: for this is what you say, and you are unwilling to assert that the soul is from God.

Augustine said: It is from God, but it was made by God.

Felix said: Whether made, or sent, or given, it is from God. Therefore, if it is from God, and was polluted, and Christ came to free it from pollution, why do you blame Mani?

Augustine said: Because I say that the soul is not the nature of God, but made by God, and that it sinned through free choice, and was polluted by sin, and was freed through God's mercy in repentance; whereas you say that the very nature of God, which is God, God from God, was captured and polluted in the race of darkness. And there is a great difference between what God begot of himself and what he made not of himself, but from nothing—that is, when it did not exist at all, it received from God that it should exist, that is, that it should be established.

Felix said: Then it is a part of God.

Augustine said: It has already been told you, it is not a part of God; and learn how you are to understand God the omnipotent maker. All things that come to be, and whatever anyone makes, are either of himself, or from something, or from nothing. Man, because he is not omnipotent, makes a son of himself; from something, as a craftsman makes a chest from wood, a vessel from silver. For he could make the vessel, but he could not make the silver; he could make the chest, but he could not make the wood.

But from nothing—to make that which absolutely is not, so that it exists—no human being can do. But God, because he is omnipotent, both begot a Son of himself, and made the world from nothing, and formed man from clay; so that through these three powers he might show his effecting power prevailing in all things. For what he made of himself is not to be said to have been made, but to have been begotten.

But as for what he made from something, as man from earth, he did not make man from earth in such a way that someone else made for him the very earth from which he might make man—as God made silver for the silversmith from which he might make a vessel—but he himself made both that which was not, so that it should exist, and that which should then be from it, which he himself had already created from nothing so that it should exist.

So, then, the body, so the soul, so the whole creation is understood to be made by God, not begotten of God, so as to be what God is.

Accordingly, now perhaps you will choose what to hold and what to reject. Choose what is better. Since we see many mutable things that are nevertheless good, although mutable; many mortal things that are nevertheless good, although mortal; but the wholly unchangeable good is God himself: choose what it is better for you to hold—that God is mutable, or that what God made is mutable? For it is necessary that you say one of the two. If you are unwilling to admit that what God made is mutable, it remains that you say God himself is mutable. But, that you may purify yourself from this sacrilege and this blasphemy, lest you say that the substance of God is mutable: why do you not grant that God, who truly is, and is unchangeable—since he himself also said, I am who am (Exod 3:14)—made all things good, but not equal to himself? Accordingly, since he himself is unchangeable, it is no wonder if what he made, because it is not equal to him, is not unchangeable, but mutable. Therefore it could both sin and be polluted through free choice, and be freed through his mercy.

19. Felix said: You said that man makes a son for himself; there is no difference between father and son. Since, then, Your Holiness has put this forward, I too answer that God and the things he makes are equal to one another.

Augustine said: What you were unwilling to understand is that, when man makes a son, he is not properly said to make, but is properly said to beget; so too God begot the only Son, I told you, he did not make him. But he made that which is not equal to him; whereas what he begot is equal to him. So choose for yourself which you wish to say: that what God made is mutable, or that the nature of God is mutable.

Felix said: As God is unchangeable, so likewise the one whom he begot is unchangeable; and what he made, if it is of his own nature, is not changed.

Augustine said: But it has already been told you that what he made is not of his own nature; rather, he made it from nothing, because he is omnipotent. It did not exist, and he made it, not of himself, not from any thing that he himself had not made, but from nothing.

Felix said: I did not say this; but I said that God is unchangeable, and what he begot is unchangeable, and what he made is unchangeable. I did not say from what he made it; I did not ask this, from what he made it.

Augustine said: But you have heard from me what you did not ask, so that you might at last cease to speak foolishly. The omnipotent God was able both to beget of himself, and to make from nothing, and to form something from what he had already made: of himself, the Son equal to himself; from nothing, the world and the whole creation; from something, man from earth—because he is omnipotent. What, then, is of himself can never be polluted, just as he himself cannot; but what was made by him, not of him, can both be polluted through free choice, and be cleansed through his mercy, by condemning what it sinned and acknowledging him who created it.

But you, who a little while ago said that one who says a part of God is corruptible and able to be contaminated is to be anathematized—and yet you cannot deny that Mani said that a part of God was comprehended and polluted in the race of darkness, and it appears that he blasphemed in these words, so much so that he could perhaps not blaspheme worse—either anathematize him who says such things, or you are to be anathematized and cast out along with him.

20. Felix said: Mani says that a part of God was polluted; and Christ says that the soul was polluted, and he came to free it from pollution.

Augustine said: But the soul is not a part of God. For you have already confessed that Mani said a part of God was polluted; whereas we say that the soul was polluted by the will of sin, but that the soul is not a part of God, not begotten of God, but made by God. So, then, the soul is said to be from God in the way that some work of a craftsman is said to be from his craft, or made by him—yet not begotten of him, as his son is.

You, then, since you have already confessed that Mani said a part of God is polluted, and you said a while ago that one who says God, or his nature, is corruptible or able to be contaminated is to be anathematized—you have already anathematized him, though you are unwilling to admit it. For what you said, that it is polluted and that it is cleansed—by the very fact that you say, It is cleansed, you have expressed that it is polluted; and you have no way to escape: both Mani and you have said that a part of God is polluted. Anathematize Mani, then, or you are to be anathematized along with Mani.

Felix said: I did not learn from Mani that a part of God is polluted; but I learned from Christ that he came for the sake of the soul, which was polluted.

Augustine said: You did not learn from Christ that the soul is a part of God.

Felix said: I learned from Christ that the soul is from God.

Augustine said: We too have learned that the soul is from God, but it is not a part of God. For the soul is from God in the way that a thing made is from its maker, not of God, as a son is of his father.

Felix said: We are dealing with pollution; if the soul, which is from God, was polluted, and can be purified by Christ, who came for its sake, then that part of God of which Mani speaks can be polluted and cleansed through the commandment of God himself.

Augustine said: See, again you say that a polluted part of God is purified, and a little while ago you had said that one who says it is corruptible is to be anathematized; now you say that it could be polluted; and you say that it can be cleansed, so as to confirm that it could be polluted. This we do not say about a part of God; but we say it about the soul, because it is from him as his work, not from him as offspring of him.

Return, then, to what you say, and distinguish what we say. The soul is neither God nor a part of God. But you say that Mani said a part of God is polluted, which he says is purified, so as to confirm that it is polluted. It remains, then, that you either anathematize him, or, holding these views, be anathematized.

21. Felix said: Does the soul, which was defiled through sin, belong to God, or not?

Augustine said: It belongs to him, but it is not a part of him.

Felix said: That is not what I asked.

Augustine said: And what did you ask?

Felix said: Does it belong to God, or does it not belong?

Augustine said: I have already said both that it belongs, and how it belongs.

Felix said: I ask whether it is truly from God.

Augustine said: From God, not of God.

Felix said: If there is no sin, and the soul is from God, and was polluted, and Christ came to free it, and freed it from sin, why do we blame Mani, who says that a part of God was polluted and is again cleansed?

Augustine said: Since you have already confessed that Mani said a part of God is polluted, and you say it is no sin to pour out such blasphemy against God—whereas we say that the soul indeed sinned through free choice, and is purified by repenting through the mercy of its Creator, because it is not from God as a part of him, or as offspring of him, but was made from God, or by God, as his work—what difference there is between our faith and your faithlessness is manifest to all. And so, according to your earlier words, since you granted that one who says the nature of God is corruptible is to be anathematized, which it is manifest that Mani also says, then, because you were unwilling that he should be anathematized by you, you will be anathematized along with him.

22. After this, when they had argued many words between themselves: Felix said: Now you tell me, what do you want me to do?

Augustine said: That you anathematize Mani, whose are these great blasphemies. But if you do it from the heart, then do it; for no one compels you against your will.

Felix said: God sees whether I do it from the heart; for a man cannot see. But I ask this, that you confirm me.

Augustine said: In what do you want me to confirm you?

Felix said: You anathematize first, so that I too may anathematize afterward.

Augustine said: See, I even write it with my own hand; for I want you too to write with your own hand.

Felix said: But anathematize in such a way as to anathematize the very spirit that was in Mani and spoke these things through him.

Augustine, having taken the paper, wrote these words: I, Augustine, bishop of the Catholic Church, have now anathematized Mani and his teaching, and the spirit that spoke such execrable blasphemies through him, because it was a spirit of seduction, not of truth, but of impious error; and now I anathematize the aforesaid Mani and the spirit of his error.

And when he had given the same paper to Felix, he too wrote these words with his own hand: I, Felix, who had believed in Mani, now anathematize him, and his teaching, and the seducing spirit that was in him, who said that God mingled a part of himself with the race of darkness, and freed it so foully that he transformed his powers into females against the males, and the same again into males against the female demons, so that afterward he fixes the remnants of that part of himself forever in the clod of darkness. All these and the other blasphemies of Mani I anathematize.

I, Augustine, the bishop, have subscribed to these proceedings in church before the people.

I, Felix, have subscribed to these proceedings.