1. When Augustine and Maximinus had met together in one place at Hippo Regius, in the presence of many people, both clergy and laity,

MAXIMINUS said: I did not come to this city for the purpose of proposing a dispute with your Reverence, but I came in the interest of peace, sent by Count Segisvult. For I did in fact give an answer, as best I could, to the priest Heraclius, who was dealing with me by a friendly arrangement, though I was provoked to it by him; and he became so inflamed that he even provoked your arrival against me. And since your Reverence has deigned to do yourself this disservice, then, if you ask, I will give an answer on the points where I am able. If you say something reasonable, I must follow it. For if you bring forward anything from the divine Scriptures, which is common to us all, we must listen; but those statements that are outside Scripture are in no case accepted by us, especially since the Lord himself warns us and says: In vain do they worship me, teaching the commandments and precepts of men (Matt 15:9).

2. AUGUSTINE said: If I should want to reply to all those points, I too would seem to be acting so that we never come to the matter at hand. Therefore, so that we may quickly deal with what is pressing, tell me your faith concerning the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

MAXIMINUS replied: If you demand my faith, I hold that faith which at Rimini was not only set forth but also confirmed by the signatures of three hundred and thirty bishops.

3. AUGUSTINE said: I have already said it, and I repeat the very same thing, because you have refused to answer: Tell me your faith concerning the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

MAXIMINUS replied: Since I have not failed to give a reply, why am I accused by your Reverence, as though I had not given an answer?

4. AUGUSTINE said: I said that you refused to answer for this reason: that while I was asking you to tell me your faith concerning the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit—which I am still asking now—you did not tell me your faith, but you named the Council of Rimini. I want to know your faith, what you believe, what you hold concerning the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. If you would be so good, let me hear it from your own mouth. Do not send me to those writings that either are not now at hand or by whose authority I am not bound. Say what you believe concerning the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

MAXIMINUS replied: I did not want the decree of the Council of Rimini brought in to excuse myself, but to show the authority of the Fathers, who handed down to us, in accordance with the divine Scriptures, that faith which they learned from the divine Scriptures. But if it is your wish—since a man believes with his heart and so is justified, and he confesses with his lips and so is saved (Rom 10:10); for we are instructed and ready to make a reply to everyone who asks of us a reason for the faith and hope that is in us (See 1 Pet 3:15); and besides, since the Lord Jesus himself says: Whoever confesses me before men, I also will confess him before my Father who is in heaven; and whoever denies me before men, I also will deny him before my Father who is in heaven (Matt 10:32-33)—fearing that danger, though I am not unaware of the imperial laws, yet taught by the precept of the Savior, who warned us and said: Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul (Matt 10:28), I answer plainly: I believe that there is one God the Father, who received life from no one; and that there is one Son, who received from the Father, in order to exist, that which he is and that by which he lives; and that there is one Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, who is the illuminator and sanctifier of our souls. And this I affirm from the divine Scriptures. If you bid me, I will proceed with the testimonies; if your Reverence finds fault on any point, I will give an answer on the points where I am seen to be at fault.

5. AUGUSTINE said: It troubles me that you have so set down the Holy Spirit as being properly our illuminator, as though Christ were not our illuminator. So on this point I want first to hear from you what you hold.

MAXIMINUS replied: For we acknowledge one author, God the Father, from whom all illumination descends by degrees. For the apostle Paul, for instance, gives this testimony about himself in the Acts of the Apostles, saying: For so the Lord has commanded us, and among other things: I have set you to be a light for the gentiles (Acts 13:47). If the Apostle was set as a light for the gentiles, as a teacher, how much more the Holy Spirit, who is the illuminator of the Apostle, in whom the Apostle also spoke, according to the Apostle's own words, since no one can say the Lord Jesus except in the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:3)? Surely the Holy Spirit is the illuminator, who illuminated the Apostle. But the Holy Spirit received from Christ, according to Christ's own testimony, as Christ says in the Gospel: I have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now; but when that Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth. For he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine, and he will declare it to you (John 16:12-14). Therefore the Holy Spirit received from Christ, according to the testimony of Christ. Without doubt, however, Christ himself confesses that my teaching is not mine, but his who sent me, the Father's (John 7:16), and: What I have seen and heard with my Father, I speak (John 8:38). So whether Christ illuminates us by teaching us, it is the Father who illuminates, who appointed him; or whether the Holy Spirit illuminates, the illumination runs back to the author, who is the fountain of goodness; from whom, having received it, whether the blessed Apostle or indeed all the saints do illuminate believers, yet this illumination runs back to the one author. And it was for this reason that the prophet said: The Lord is my illumination and my salvation; whom shall I fear? (Ps 27:1 (26:1))

6. AUGUSTINE said: I do not deny that the Holy Spirit illuminates; but whether Christ also illuminates through himself, and the Father illuminates through himself, or whether they do not illuminate except through the Holy Spirit—this is what I asked briefly, and this I am asking.

MAXIMINUS replied: I believe it does not escape your Reverence that the blessed apostle Paul said: But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior (Tit 3:4-6). According to this rule I say and profess that the Holy Spirit is the illuminator through the Son, as was said before: whom he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior. I have already given my answer: that whether Paul illuminates, this illumination runs back to the author, God the Father; or whether the Holy Spirit illuminates, the illumination runs back to the author; or whether Christ illuminates, the illumination runs back to the author. And taught by this teaching of Christ, I proceed, as Christ himself says: My sheep hear my voice, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. What my Father has given me is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch it out of my Father's hand. And again he says thus: I and the Father are one (John 10:27-30). Therefore, for the defense of the sheep, for their illumination, the Father and the Son are one, in agreement and of one mind according to this account that you have heard: since no one can snatch out of my hand the sheep that the Father has given me; and in like manner, neither out of the Father's hand.

7. AUGUSTINE said: You speak of things that are indeed necessary, but not to the point. You have not answered my question, and yet you have said many things. If you wanted, setting aside the question that is at issue between us, to render the whole Gospel, how many days would suffice, how great a stretch of time would be needed? Tell me briefly, since I asked you, whether Christ illuminates through himself, or does not illuminate except through the Holy Spirit. Not only have you refused to answer this, but, unless what I heard deceives me, you have rather said that the Holy Spirit illuminates through Christ.

MAXIMINUS replied: It is not fitting in a religious matter, especially when we are speaking of God, to bring a false charge. I have both given an answer and, if what we have said is not enough, I add testimonies, since through Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit was poured out upon all believers. For we read thus that blessed Peter said: This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he poured out this gift that you now both see and hear (Acts 2:32-33). For I said that all things whatever the Holy Spirit supplies to us, he has obtained from Christ. Go back to the testimonies already brought forward, and you will find it so.

8. AUGUSTINE said: When you want to try to prove what I myself do not deny, you use up necessary time on superfluous matters. I do not deny that the Holy Spirit was poured out upon believers through Christ. Without cause you have wanted to prove by so many delays, with testimonies, what I myself confess. This is what I said, this is what I asked, this I say again: whether Christ illuminates through the Holy Spirit, or the Holy Spirit illuminates through Christ; for you said above that the Holy Spirit illuminates through Christ. But if you do not recall it, let your words be read out from the record of the proceedings, so that it may appear that we ordered them to be read, and I will prove that you said what I am asking about.

MAXIMINUS replied: Proof would have been necessary, had you not appeased yourself. For you have already gone along with the testimonies that I brought forward, or with the account that I gave, in that you hold the same yourself. Since, then, this question is finished, propose another for me to answer. For you have already professed that you have been satisfied on this question.

9. AUGUSTINE said: Did you say that the Holy Spirit illuminates through Christ, or did you not say it? I ask you to be so good as to answer me briefly one of the two. Did you say it, or did you not say it?

MAXIMINUS replied: I have professed the Holy Spirit according to the teaching of the Savior: that whether he illuminates, he received it from Christ; or whether he teaches, he received it from Christ; all things whatever the Holy Spirit does, he has obtained from the only-begotten God. And if the testimonies are few, I add more.

10. AUGUSTINE said: So that he may not say that we are bringing a false charge, let his own words a little earlier be read out.

Antonius the notary read out at that point: I say and profess that the Holy Spirit is the illuminator through the Son, as was said before, whom he poured out richly upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior (Tit 3:6). And when this had been read out:

MAXIMINUS replied: As it seems, it is rather you who are bent on delay, so that we never come back to the principal matter, but you want to keep us all day long with arguments on a single question. For we recite that through the Son the Holy Spirit was poured out, and we have produced as witness not only blessed Paul but also Peter, the first of the Apostles. For our exposition holds that the Holy Spirit received from Christ, according to the preceding testimony: He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you (John 16:14). Likewise, being compelled, I say again that whether the Holy Spirit illuminates, or teaches, or instructs, he has obtained all things from Christ; since through Christ all things were made, and without him was made nothing (John 1:3). Christ says that he has obtained all these things from his begetter, and that he lives because of the Father, and every tongue confesses that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father (See Phil 2:11). And that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of woman is man; and the head of Christ is God (1 Cor 11:3). And that the Holy Spirit is subject to the Son; and that the Son is subject to the Father, as the most beloved, as obedient, as good, begotten of the good. For the Father did not beget one contrary to himself, but begot one such as also cries out and says: I always do what is pleasing to the Father (John 8:29).

11. AUGUSTINE said: If Christ also illuminates through the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit illuminates through Christ, the power is equal. But read out to me where the Holy Spirit is subject to Christ, as you said a little earlier. As for your saying that the Lord said of the Holy Spirit, he will take what is mine, this was said because he takes from the Father, and all that is the Father's is without doubt the Son's also. For when he had said this, he added: This is why I said: He will take what is mine; because all that the Father has is mine (John 16:14-15). So tell me what I asked, and prove with testimonies that the Holy Spirit is subject to Christ; especially since we read him rather saying: The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor (Luke 4:18). If he himself said that the Holy Spirit is upon him, how do you say that the Holy Spirit is subject to Christ? But Christ said that the Holy Spirit is upon him—not because he is above the Word of God, who is God, but because he is above the man, in that the Word was made flesh. For where it is written, The Word was made flesh (John 1:14), this is nothing other than: The Word was made man. Because: All flesh shall see the salvation of God (Isa 40:5) is nothing other than: Every man. And: In the law no flesh shall be justified (Rom 3:20) is nothing other than: No man. Therefore, because the Word was made flesh, and he emptied himself, taking the form of a servant (Phil 2:7), from that very form of a servant he said: The Spirit of the Lord is upon me. For the power is equal, the substance is one, the divinity is the same. Thus, although we worship the Trinity—since the Father is not the Son, nor is the Son the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit either the Father or the Son—yet we worship one God, because the ineffable and exalted union of the Trinity itself shows one God, one Lord. And so it was said: Hear, O Israel; the Lord your God, the Lord is one (Deut 6:4). Why do you want to make us into two gods and two lords? You say the Lord Father and God the Father, you say the Lord Christ and God Christ: I ask, whether the two together are one. You answer: Two gods. It remains for you to make temples and idols for them too.

MAXIMINUS replied: Authors in matters of religion are never turned to false accusation. You asked for testimonies, so that I might teach by testimonies the things I professed: and you yourself profess the three—Father and Son and Holy Spirit—to be equal and on a level. And besides, although you have professed three equals, you have in turn brought forward a testimony of the divine Scriptures that pertains not to the equality but to the singularity of the almighty God, namely, that he is the one author of all. Therefore, since you both surpass me in age and are greater in authority, bring forward and instruct first by testimonies that the three are equal, three almighty, three unbegotten, three invisible, three incomprehensible; and then at last we must rest in the testimonies. But if you should be unable to give an account from the divine Scriptures, I must, with regard to all the things I said in what preceded—whether concerning the Father alone, who receives the fact that he lives from no one, or the Son, of whom I professed that he received the fact that he lives from the Father, or what I said concerning the Holy Spirit—bring forward as many testimonies as you desire.

12. AUGUSTINE said: What I asked you to be so good as to say—by what testimony you would prove the Holy Spirit subject to Christ—you have not said; nevertheless I answer the points you have put forward. We do not say three almighty, just as we do not say three gods. For if we are asked about each individually, whether the Father is God, we answer: God; whether the Son is God, we answer: God; whether the Holy Spirit is God, we answer: God. But when we are asked about them all, whether they are three, we refer ourselves to the divine Scripture, which says: Hear, O Israel; the Lord your God, the Lord is one (Deut 6:4). And by this divine prescription we learn that this same Trinity is one God. So too, if it is asked of each individually whether the Father is almighty, we answer: Almighty; if the Son, we answer the same; if the Holy Spirit, we do not deny him to be almighty either. And yet we do not say three almighty, just as we do not say three gods; but as those three together are one God, so those three together are one almighty, and the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are one invisible God. Without cause, then, do you think we are constrained by number, since the power of the divinity exceeds even the principle of number. For if the souls of many people, having received the Holy Spirit and being in a manner fused together by the fire of love, made one soul—of which the Apostle says: For they had one soul and one heart (Acts 4:32): so many hearts, so many thousands of hearts, the love of the Holy Spirit made one heart; so many thousands of souls the Holy Spirit called one soul, the one soul that he himself made—how much more do we say one God of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, who always cleave to one another inseparably and with ineffable love?

MAXIMINUS replied: And by this you have called them on a level and equal—which indeed you were unable to teach by testimonies, and for that reason you turned aside to another matter. For we do not doubt, but know by sure faith, that the heart and soul of all believers was one. Nor does this prejudge our religion, but rather agrees with it. For without doubt, if the heart and soul of all believers was one, why then should not the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit be said to be one in agreement, in concord, in love, in unanimity? For what did the Son do that did not please the Father? What did the Father command in which the Son did not comply? When did the Holy Spirit hand down commands contrary to Christ or the Father? And it is established, according to the Savior's statement, where he says: I and the Father are one (John 10:30), that they are one in concord and in agreement.

Now, just as you yourself professed, the Father is the Father, who was never the Son; the Son is the Son, who always remains the Son; and the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit. What he is, and what we read, we profess concerning the Holy Spirit—concerning this Holy Spirit, who is so great and such that even the angels themselves long to look into him (See 1 Pet 1:12). So great is this Holy Spirit that he suffices everywhere to receive the petitions of all, and to perform the office of advocate. And on this point I bring forward as witness blessed Paul, who says: For we do not know how to pray as we ought; but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words (Rom 8:26). What I read, I believe: that the Holy Spirit intercedes with sighs too deep for words. And so, taught by this teaching, I say that the Holy Spirit is subject to such a degree that he intercedes for us with sighs.

But I profess one God—not that the three are one, but there is one God, incomparable, immense, infinite, unbegotten, invisible, whom even the Son himself both prayed to and prays to, before whom even the Holy Spirit performs the office of advocate. For the Son prays to the Father; for although you are accustomed to apply to the body all those testimonies that we read in the holy Gospel, nevertheless it is our task, when the divine Scriptures have been searched out, to show that even now, seated at the right hand of the Father, he intercedes for us. For this is why I said, both prayed and prays: because now indeed he intercedes for us, as the Apostle says: Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? It is Christ who died, yes, who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us? (Rom 8:33-34) Likewise, when Christ was with his disciples, he promised that he would pray in this way, saying: If you love me, keep my commandments; and I will pray the Father, and he will give you another advocate, to be with you forever, the Spirit of truth, whom this world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; but you have seen him and know him, because he abides with you and is in you (John 14:15-17). If these are enough, it is well; if not, I will add as many testimonies as you bid.

13. AUGUSTINE said: The things that we ourselves confess, you ought not to prove to us. For in doing this, you do nothing else, as I said above, than use up necessary time. We know that the Son of God is the Son of God; we know that he is not from himself, but begotten from the Father; and that the Father himself is unbegotten, is from no one, received life from no one; but that the Son received life from the Father—yet not as though he were at some time without life, so that he received life. For the Father gave him life by begetting life: by begetting him as life, he gave him life. And he showed the equality by saying: As the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself (John 5:26). The Father has life in himself; the Son has in himself a life equal to the Father's life. But still, the Son did not receive life from himself, because he was not born of himself: he was born of the Father. By begetting he gave it—not because the Son already existed without life and he gave him life, in the way that we sinners were made without life and through indulgence and grace received life: he received life from the Father, because he was born of the Father as life.

And on this basis you were unable to say that the Holy Spirit is subject to the Son, except on the ground that he intercedes for us with sighs. For it seems to you that that perfection of holiness is always in sighing, never drawing breath from groaning. O eternal misery! Understand the manner of speech, and you will avoid the blasphemy. For it was said, he intercedes with sighs, so that we might understand: He makes us intercede with sighs. For he is present to us, and by pouring love into us, he makes us intercede with sighs. So too, in another place, when the Apostle says: Crying, Abba, Father (Gal 4:6); in another place he says: In whom we cry, Abba, Father (Rom 8:15); he explained what Crying, Abba, Father means by saying In whom we cry. And on this basis, what is Crying but: making us cry?

I give an example of this manner of speech. Is not God foreknowing of all future things? Who but a madman will deny this? Yet the Apostle says: But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God (Gal 4:9). If God now came to know them, he had not known them, had not chosen them, had not predestined them before the foundation of the world. But he said: But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, so that they might understand that God had brought about in them the knowledge of him. Coming to know God. What is Coming to know God? Do not arrogate it to yourselves, do not be proud: You have been known by God. What is You have been known by God? God made you his knowers: God granted you to know. So too is that saying of the Lord: Now I know, the Lord says to Abraham: Now I know that you fear the Lord (Gen 22:12). When Abraham brought his son for a burnt offering, God says to him: Now I know. Is that the whole of God's foreknowledge? Did he then come to know, when he said: Now I know? But what is Now I know? That is: Now I have made you know.

If, then, you recognized these manners of speech as one instructed in the divine books, you would not, from those sighs by which the Holy Spirit was said to intercede with sighs, make him wretched. For what else is one who is always sighing than one who is always wretched? We sigh because we are wretched. And thanks be to the Holy Spirit, because by the love of the eternal age he makes us sigh, on account of which he was called sighing. He makes us cry out, on account of which he was called crying. He makes us know God, on account of which it was said: Or rather, known by God. God makes Abraham one who knows, on account of which he said to him: Now I know.

MAXIMINUS replied: In the very things for which you reprove us, you are yourself exposed. For it is certain, and the divine Scripture warns us, that out of much talking you will not escape sin; but he who spares his lips will be wise (See Prov 10:19). And yet, even if someone brings forward testimonies from the divine Scriptures all day long, this will truly not be charged to him as verbosity; but if someone, using either literary art or the expression of his own spirit, strings together words that do not hold the contents of holy Scripture, these are both idle and superfluous.

It is enough for me, who have brought you to this rule, that you profess that the Father is the Father, because he is unbegotten, because he received life from no one; and that the Son obtained life from the Father; and that the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit. But in saying one God, you would do well indeed, if, in confessing one God, you did not say that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are one God, coming into conflict with your own statement.

By us one God is worshiped, unbegotten, unmade, invisible, who did not descend to human contaminations and to human flesh. There is also the Son, according to the Apostle, not a little but a great God: as blessed Paul says: Awaiting our blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of the great God and of our Savior Jesus Christ (Tit 2:13). For this great God, Christ, says: I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God (John 20:17). For out of his own subjection he established one God. This, then, is the one God, as we have now recited by testimonies, whom Christ and the Holy Spirit adore, and whom every creature venerates and worships: on this account we profess one. Yet not because a coupling or commingling of the Son with the Father, or indeed of the Holy Spirit with the Son or with the Father, makes one God. But because he alone is the one perfect God, who, as you yourself have stated, received life from no one, who granted to his Son to have life in himself after his own example: we do indeed say that they are coupled in love and in concord.

Now, just as we have given the account above, that the Father is another and not the Son himself, the Savior himself instructs us by saying: If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true; there is another who bears witness of me. And lest by a presumptuous spirit some should think that he called either John the Baptist or perhaps Peter the apostle or Paul "another," he himself went on: You sent to John, and he bore witness to the truth. But I do not receive testimony from man; but I say these things that you may be saved. He, he says, was a lamp that burned and shone; but you were willing to rejoice for an hour in his light. But I have testimony greater than John's. The works that the Father has given me to accomplish, these very works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me, he himself bears witness of me (John 5:31-37). Who is so foolish as not to understand that one bore witness of another, the Father of the Son,

who indeed also said: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; listen to him (Matt 17:5)? I read "beloved," and I believe that the Father is the one who loves, and the Son the one who is loved. I hear that Christ is only-begotten, and I do not doubt that the one is begotten by the one. Paul cries out that he is firstborn, saying: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. And I profess, according to the statement of the divine Scriptures, that the Son is firstborn and not unbegotten; and that in him were created all things that are in the heavens and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things were made through him, and in him were created; and he is before all, and all things hold together in him (Col 1:15-17); and that this Son of God, only-begotten God, is before all. For he himself says: What I have seen with my Father, I speak (John 8:38).

This Son also—that which you ascribe to the flesh—says in the holy Gospel: If you loved me, you would surely rejoice, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I (John 14:28). For reading these things we believe, and we profess according to the Apostle that all things are subjected to him as to the great God (See 1 Cor 15:25). For this great God, whom the Father begot of such a kind—as you yourself have stated—indeed confessed the Father to be greater, so that he might establish him as the one God, in whose bosom he is also described to be by John the evangelist.

Hear him indeed crying out and speaking of the invisibility of the almighty God, that no one has ever seen God; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known (John 1:18). Instructed by this, Paul cries out and says: The blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords; who alone has immortality, and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no one of men has seen nor can see; to whom be honor and power forever. Amen (1 Tim 6:15-16). Of him he says again: To the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever. Amen (Rom 16:27). And so by us one God is proclaimed, because there is one God over all, unbegotten, unmade, as we have stated. But as for the Son being born, if you do not believe Paul when he says "firstborn of all creation," then believe the Son himself when he says to Pilate, when he said to him: So you are a king? Christ says: For this I was born (John 18:37). I read "born," I profess what I read: I read "firstborn," I do not disbelieve it: I read "only-begotten," and even if I were hung on the rack, I will not say otherwise: what the holy Scriptures teach us, I profess.

For you, who say that the Father and the Son are one, call the Father only-begotten, call him firstborn; say the things that are the Father's in the Son, call the Son unbegotten, call him unborn, say that no one has ever seen him nor can see him. Set forth concerning the Holy Spirit such things as we read concerning the Father, so that you may show the Holy Spirit to be equal to the Father. Speak, I beg you, take me as your disciple. Set forth concerning the Son that the Son is unbegotten, that he is without origin. If equal, then certainly such; if such, then certainly unbegotten; if unbegotten, then certainly no one of men has seen him. Give testimonies, and instruct, and teach, and you will have me as your disciple.

14. AUGUSTINE said: You said that one God is worshiped by you, as I was able to gather while you were speaking: it follows that either you do not worship Christ, or you do not worship one God, but two. You also said of the Father that he did not descend to human contaminations and to human flesh. In case perhaps you do not know it, where "contaminations" are spoken of, they signify some defilement: you therefore wanted Christ to be understood to have come to human contaminations: therefore you have professed Christ to be defiled by human flesh. But I say—indeed, the catholic faith says, which I hold together with the Church of Christ—that our Lord Jesus Christ was so made the Word flesh that he suffered no contamination from the human race and from human flesh. For he came to cleanse, not to be defiled. He therefore took on a human soul and human flesh without any plague of contamination; and both, that is, both the human soul and the human flesh, he deigned to save in himself. But since, as far as I see, you do not want to assent to the truth concerning his invisibility, I ask you to consider that Christ was visible according to the flesh and according to the man. For with respect to that by which the Word is God with God, he himself is also invisible. Christ is the Wisdom of God: human wisdom is invisible; and shall the Wisdom of God be visible? As far, then, as concerns that nature in which he is equal to the Father, he is equally God, equally almighty, equally invisible, equally immortal. You also said, so far as I noticed, that what the Apostle says, who alone has immortality (1 Tim 6:16), is to be taken in such a way that in this statement the Father alone is to be understood. So do you want the Word of God to be mortal? According to you, the Wisdom of God is not immortal. Do you not understand that the Son could in no way have died, unless he had taken on mortal flesh from us? Indeed the flesh died in him, but he himself did not die, as far as concerns God, as far as pertains to the divinity by which he is equal to the Father. For he says thus to men: Do not fear those who kill the body, and after that have nothing more that they can do (Luke 12:4): since the soul cannot die, can the Word of God die? Can the Wisdom of God die? Could that Only-Begotten die without taking on flesh? But with flesh taken on, by which he was made man, just as he knew himself to be equal when he says I and the Father are one (John 10:30), so he knew himself to be less, because the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us (John 1:14). He did not count it robbery to be equal with God. For it was nature, not robbery: for he did not usurp this, but was born to it. Yet he emptied himself, taking the form of a servant: you have recognized him as equal, now begin to recognize him as less: taking the form of a servant, made in the likeness of men, and found in form as a man (Phil 2:6-7). See in what form the Father is greater: distinguish the dispensation of the assumed man from the divinity that abides immortally, and you will not err in the words that you so much love to speak and do not deign to understand. But I profess, just as you say that the Father is unbegotten, that the Son is begotten. But they are not therefore of diverse natures and substances because the one is unbegotten, the other begotten. For if he is begotten, he is a Son; if he is a Son, he is a true Son, because he is only-begotten. For we too are called sons; but are we so many only-begotten sons? Otherwise is he the only-begotten Son: he is Son by nature, we sons by grace; he the only-begotten born of the Father, that is, what the Father is according to nature, according to substance. But whoever says that, because he is begotten, he is therefore of another nature, denies that he is a true son. But we have the Scripture: That we may be in his true Son Jesus Christ; he is the true God and eternal life (1 John 5:20). Why true God? Because he is the true Son of God. For if he gave to animals not to beget except what they are—man begets man, dog begets dog—and does God not beget God? If, then, he is of the same substance, why do you call him less? Or is it perhaps because a human father, when he begets a son, even though man begets man, yet the greater begets the lesser? Let us then wait for Christ to grow, as the men grow whom men beget. But if Christ, from when he was born—which is not from time but from eternity—is what he is, and yet is less, then the human condition is better: because a man can at least grow, and at some point come to his father's age, to his father's strength; that One, never: how then is he a true son? But to such a degree do we acknowledge the Son to be the great God that we say he is equal to the Father. And so without cause have you wanted to prove by testimonies and much talking what we strongly profess. But he says: My God and your God (John 20:17), attending to the form of the man in which he was. As for the rest, with respect to what John said: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John 1:1), the God of God is not the Father, but he is the God of Christ, because Christ was made man. Hence he himself says in the Psalms why God is Father to him: From my mother's womb you are my God (Ps 22:10 (21:11)). When he says that from his mother's womb that One is God to him, he shows that for this reason the Father is God to the Son, namely, because the Son is man, according to which the Father is greater than the Son. Hence he says: My God and your God. Thence too is that subjection, which we should not be surprised at, rendered to the Father according to the man, when, as it is written, he was even subject to his parents (See Luke 2:51); and of him it is written: You have made him a little less than the angels (Ps 8:5 (8:6)). But I would wish that you also teach us by some testimonies of the Scriptures where it is read that the Father is adored by the Holy Spirit. From the Son I accept it, even if you bring forward no testimonies, since the man adores God: it is easily admitted, said according to the man, even though you do not read this either. Yet I particularly require of you that you read to us that the Father was adored by the Holy Spirit, or call to mind a divine testimony: for perhaps it exists, but escapes me: so that if you find it, I may answer how it ought to be taken, just as I answered concerning the sighs by a customary manner of speech of the Scriptures. But as for your saying that, by that ineffable coupling, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are not one God: do you want to know how much that coupling is worth? Not from our manners of speech, but from the divine utterances, it is certainly clear that the spirit of man is one thing and the Lord, the Spirit, is another; whence it is said: The Lord is the Spirit (2 Cor 3:17), that is, because he is not a body; and yet the Apostle says: He who clings to a harlot is one body; but he who clings to the Lord is one spirit (1 Cor 6:16-17). If, then, this clinging of spirits of diverse natures (since the spirit of man is one thing and that of God another) made one spirit, do you not want the Son to cling so to the Father that he is one God? Take this also of the Holy Spirit, who is God. For if the Holy Spirit were not God, he would surely not have us ourselves as a temple. For it is written in the Apostle: Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? (1 Cor 3:16) And again: Do you not know that your bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? (1 Cor 6:19) Would we not, if we made a temple of wood and stone to some most excellent holy angel, be anathematized by the truth of Christ and by the Church of God, since we would be showing to a creature that service which is owed to God alone? If, then, we would be sacrilegious in making a temple to any creature whatever, how is he not the true God to whom we make not a temple, but we ourselves are the temple? But how Christ said: As the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself (John 5:26), I have answered above. As for the concord and love by which you say it came about that the Father and the Son are one: when you bring forward to me that things of diverse substances are said to be one, then I will consider what I ought to answer. For we read: He who plants and he who waters are one (1 Cor 3:8): but both were men, of the same substance, not of diverse substance. Likewise we read Christ himself saying: That they may be one, as we also are one (John 17:11). He did not say: That they and we may be one, but: That they may be one, in their own nature and in their own substance, united and in a manner fused together by a concordant equality; just as the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are one, on account of their undivided and selfsame nature. For "they are one" is one thing; "he is one" is another. When it is said: They are one—even if it is not said what one thing—one substance is understood. When it is said: He is one, of two and diverse substances, it must necessarily be asked what one thing. For example, the soul and the body are a diverse substance, yet one man; the spirit of man and the spirit of God are a diverse substance, yet when one clings to the Lord, he is one spirit (1 Cor 6:17): he added spirit; he did not say: They are one. But where it is said: They are one, one substance is signified, which you do not want, and yet you dare to say that you confess Christ to be the true Son of God. But the Father is not therefore greater because he bears witness of the Son. For the prophets too bore witness to the Son. The one who bears witness is indeed another, the one to whom witness is borne is another: because the Father is the Father, the Son is the Son. Not that they are not one, or are not one God, when they are clinging together and joined, which they always are. But you say in this way that there is a diversity between the Father and the Son, because the Father loves and the Son is loved; as though you could deny that the Son loves the Father. If both love each other in turn, why do you deny that they are of one nature? What I said of the Father, on what ground he is called greater—that it was said on account of the form of a servant—this I say also of the invisibility, since the Son is called visible on account of the same form of a servant. As for the rest, as far as concerns the divine substance itself, whether of the Father, or of the Son, or of the Holy Spirit, it is altogether invisible. For when the divinity showed itself to the fathers, it showed itself, invisible, through a creature made subject to it. For through its own nature it is so far invisible that Moses himself said to the One with whom he spoke face to face: If I have found grace before you, show me yourself plainly (Exod 33:11, 13). For he wanted to see him as God is seen by the eyes of the heart. For blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God (Matt 5:8). So Moses wanted to see the One to whom he said: Show me yourself plainly; as the invisible things of God are also perceived through the things that have been made. For the Apostle says thus: For his invisible things, through the things that have been made, are understood and perceived, his eternal power also and divinity (Rom 1:20). See, the invisible things of God are perceived by understanding, and yet they are called invisible. And all things were made through Christ himself (See John 1:3), both visible and invisible, and can he be believed by us to be visible? Hence too you say that what the Apostle says, To the only wise God (Rom 16:27), ought to be understood only of the Father. So the Father alone is the wise God, and the very Wisdom of God, which is Christ, is not wise—of whom the Apostle says: Christ the Power of God and the Wisdom of God (1 Cor 1:24)! It remains for you to say (for what do you not dare?) that the Wisdom of God is unwise. So too you say that the Father is unmade, as though the Son were made, through whom all things were made. Know that the Son was made, but in the form of a servant. For in the form of God he was so far from being made that through him all things were made. For if he himself was made, all things were not made through him, but the rest were. I therefore do not say that the Son is unbegotten; but that the Father is the begetter, the Son the begotten. Yet the Father begot what he is: otherwise he is not a true Son, if the Son is not what the Father is; as we said above of the offspring of animals; because true sons are by substance what their parents are. But what is it that you demand, that I show you the Holy Spirit to be equal to the Father, as though you had shown the Father to be greater than the Holy Spirit, as you were able to show concerning the Son, on account of the form of a servant? For we know that the Father was said to be greater than the Son, because the Son was in the form of a servant; and the Son is still in the human form, which he raised up to heaven: therefore it was said of him that even now he intercedes for us (Rom 8:34). And this same immortal form will be everlasting in the kingdom; on account of which it was said: Then the Son himself also will be subject to him who subjected all things to him (1 Cor 15:28). But concerning the Holy Spirit, who took on no creature into the unity of his person—although he too deigned to show himself visibly through a creature made subject to him, whether through the form of a dove or through tongues of fire (See Matt 3:16; Acts 2:3)—the Father was never said to be greater than he; the Holy Spirit was never said to have adored the Father, was never said to be less than the Father. But you say of the Son: If he were equal, he would surely be such: that is, since he is not unbegotten, he does not seem to be such. You could say that the one whom Adam begot is not a man, because Adam himself was not begotten, but made by God. But if Adam was able to be, and not to be begotten, and yet to beget what he himself was, do you not want God to have been able to beget a God equal to himself? I think I have answered you on all points. But if you do not want to be a disciple, do not be a man of much talk.

15. 1. MAXIMINUS said: You speak as one fortified by the help of princes, in nothing according to the fear of God. I have endured for long hours; you have set forth your case as seemed good to you. We answer, with God's help, on all points. For we are fortified not by bare speech, but by the testimonies of the divine Scriptures. Only, just as we were patient while your Reverence was setting forth your case, do you yourself, together with your people, grant the same patience, so that we may give an answer to each of your statements, just as you yourself answered ours as it pleased you.

15. 2. We worship Christ as God of all creation. For he who is adored and worshiped not only by the nature of men but also by all the heavenly powers—hear blessed Paul crying out: Have this mind among yourselves, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, though he was in the form of God, did not count it robbery to be equal with God; but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and being found in form as a man: he humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him, and bestowed on him the name that is above every name. That part which you, in your statements, knowing that it was contrary to your profession, thought should be withdrawn, knowing that the reading would convict you. For that every knee should bow to Christ, Paul himself goes on thus, when he had said: He bestowed on him the name that is above every name; there follows: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and on earth and under the earth; and every tongue confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father (Phil 2:5-11). For by saying: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and on earth and under the earth, he included all things. There is nothing in heaven that does not bow the knee to Christ: nothing has remained on earth that does not bow the knee to Christ: nothing under the earth that does not bow the knee to Christ. And this the Father bestowed on him. For those who read can judge whether I have made this exposition out of my own authority or out of much talking, as you charge, or whether I answer out of the authority of the divine Scriptures.

15. 3. You say of the Holy Spirit that he is equal to the Son. Give testimonies where the Holy Spirit is adored, where things in heaven and on earth and under the earth bow the knee to him. For we have learned that God the Father is to be adored, by blessed Paul the apostle crying out: For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom every fatherhood in heaven and on earth is named (Eph 3:14-15). By the authority of the holy Scriptures we adore the Father; equally instructed by these same divine Scriptures, we worship and adore Christ as God. If anywhere the Holy Spirit is to be adored: if the Father bore witness to him in this way, if the Son did, if he himself embraced such things concerning himself, read it to me from the divine Scriptures, besides what we have said.

15. 4. That Christ is at the right hand of God, that he intercedes for us (See Rom 8:34), so too in another place Paul himself goes on, saying: Seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God (Col 3:1). So, writing to the Hebrews, he says: When he had made purification of sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high (Heb 1:3). So too the Holy Spirit had already foretold this through the prophet, saying: The Lord said to my Lord: Sit at my right hand (Ps 110:1 (109:1)). So too the Son himself professed it in the Gospel (See Matt 22:44). Besides, to that ruler who said to him under oath: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of the blessed God, he himself said: I am; or indeed: You say so; and: From now on you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of the power of God (Mark 14:61-62; Matt 26:63-64).

15. 5. For we fittingly honor the Holy Spirit as teacher, as guide, as illuminator, as sanctifier; we worship Christ as creator; the Father we adore with sincere devotion as author, whom everywhere we proclaim to all to be the one author. For these false charges come from the training of the philosophic art. I do not think you have read less than what the Apostle says: Since Christ, although he was no sinner, was made sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in him (2 Cor 5:21). Nor, surely, has it perhaps reached you what the Scripture said: Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree; which the blessed apostle Paul, interpreting it, says: Made a curse for us, that the blessing might be fulfilled among the gentiles (Deut 21:23; Gal 3:13). Nor, surely, has this reached you, what Paul himself says: The first man Adam was from the earth, earthy; the second man, the Lord, came from heaven, heavenly (1 Cor 15:47). Therefore Christ too took on a man, as you yourself have set forth. And this is why we said that he descended to earthly contaminations. For we are not unaware of him according to what we read: Who committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth; who, when he was reviled, did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten; but committed himself to him who judges justly (1 Pet 2:22-23). Nor are we unaware of what John the Baptist says: Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29). It stands, as you yourself have set forth. For we should not be obstinate on all points, so as not to praise the things you say well. For your statement is very just, that Christ came for this reason, rather to cleanse us from sins and from iniquities; yet not so that he himself should be contaminated, as you yourself have also set forth. For it is certain that, according to that blessed substance of his divinity, which he had before the foundation of the world, before the ages, before times, before days, before months, before years, before anything existed, before any thought, in that blessed nature God was born of the Father.

15. 6. For in speaking of God it is fitting to use a worthy comparison. This indeed displeases me, and I was greatly grieved in mind at your statement: that you should say that man begets man, and dog dog; so foul a comparison ought not to have been brought into that great immensity.

15. 7. But who does not know that God begot God, that Lord begot Lord, that King begot King, that Creator begot Creator, that the good begot the good, that the wise begot the wise, that the merciful begot the merciful, the powerful the powerful? The Father took nothing away in begetting the Son. For he begot so great a good not out of envy, but as the fountain of goodness; of whose goodness every creature is a witness, according to your own statement, which I greatly praise, where you brought forward from the divine Scriptures, saying: For his invisible things, from the creation of the world, through the things that have been made, are understood and perceived, his eternal power also and divinity (Rom 1:20).

15. 8. But I add further—not saying things contrary to what has been well said, but lending my agreement—that from the greatness of beauty their Creator is worthily known and worshiped. As I think, we have given an answer to these things; since blessed Paul too goes on with this again: Since the bond that stood against us, Christ took it away out of the midst, nailing it to the cross; and stripping himself of the flesh, he led away the powers and principalities with confidence, triumphing over them in himself (Col 2:14-15). And yet, even as a man who has not undertaken the exercise of liberal letters or of the rhetorical art, if I had made some fault in speech, you ought to have looked to the sense, and not, intent on a fault of speech, bring us into accusation. Far be it, far be it: the only-begotten God is the God of all creation, clean, undefiled, holy, secure, having in himself no uncleanness. For he who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him (John 5:23). For that the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, the evangelist testifies: And we beheld, he says, his glory, glory as of the only-begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth (John 1:14). Of this same one the Old Testament too had foretold before, saying: He will wash his robe in wine, and his garment in the blood of the grape (Gen 49:11). What I read, I believe: that the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us. Again I read that blessed Paul said: Who will transfigure the body of our lowliness, to be conformed to the image of the body of his glory (Phil 3:21). For I believe that Christ, God begotten of the Father before all ages, had built for himself, according to Solomon, a perfect house, according to what we read: Wisdom has built herself a house (Prov 9:1): which house he received in place of a temple.

15. 9. For you yourself gave an account in what respect he is visible, in what respect invisible: so that, as I think, this is no new hearing that has reached the ears of your Reverence. For in the statement that you made, taking up a comparison from the soul, you showed that it is a pious and just account, that we should believe and know that, if the human soul placed in the body cannot be seen by bodily eyes, how much more can the Creator of the soul not be seen by bodily eyes? For if the angels are held to be invisible according to the substance of their nature, how much more the Creator of the angels, who made so many and such things: angels, archangels, thrones, dominions, principalities, powers, cherubim, seraphim? To the multitude of these, as we read in the Gospel, he compared the whole human race to a single sheep, saying: Leaving the ninety-nine in the mountains, he came to seek the one that was straying. For indeed: So there will be joy, he says, in heaven over one sinner who repents, more than over ninety-nine righteous who need no repentance (Luke 15:4, 7). For who are they who need no repentance, but surely those heavenly powers, who have nothing in common with human nature? The power of the only-begotten God is to be considered, and in him is to be admired the greatness of the omnipotence of God the Father, who begot so great and so excellent a Son, so powerful, so wise, so full, who made so many and such heavenly powers. And lest we be found verbose, just as you have already deigned to brand us—and would that it might come to pass that we too could say: We are fools for Christ's sake; and: We have been made as the refuse of this world (1 Cor 4:10, 13), and whatever else your Reverence may wish to judge of us. We know him who said: For your sake I have borne reproach all day long (Ps 69:7 (68:8)). Calling us to this example, Paul said: Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ (1 Cor 4:16). For Peter too says: Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps (1 Pet 2:21). According to the substance of his divinity, the Son is seen not only not by men, but not even by the heavenly powers. For an archangel can see an angel, an angel can both see and penetrate our spiritual souls: this is surely for the higher to both see and penetrate the lower. And according to the Savior's statement, as he was then saying to the one who was boasting himself rich: Fool, this night your soul is required of you (Luke 12:20); it is the office of an angel to restore the soul before the sight of the Lord. Yet the soul cannot see an angel, or present one. By this order ascend higher; and you will find how there is one invisible God the Father, who has no superior by whom he might be looked upon: who, however great he is, is infinite; who can be neither limited by words nor conceived by the mind: of whose greatness not only the human tongue, but even all the heavenly powers together joined, speak as best they can, yet do not unfold it as it is. He is full beyond all that is said. For the Son alone worthily honors and praises him, the more he has obtained from his begetter before all thought. For that he honors and praises together and glorifies his begetter, although the four Gospels testify, yet, putting it briefly, setting aside those things that you are accustomed to apply to the flesh, I will now bring forward testimonies where he adores his Father in the heavens. For Paul says thus to the Hebrews: For Christ did not enter into temples made by hands, copies of the true one; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us (Heb 9:24). This indeed is after Christ's return into the heavens. For after he spoke from heaven, saying: Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? (Acts 9:4) After the Holy Spirit said: Set apart for me Barnabas and Paul for the work of the ministry to which I have called them (Acts 13:2): Paul, being called, says: Jesus did not enter into temples made by hands, copies of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us. And since your Reverence proposed that we should give an answer to this, whether the Son sees the Father, we read in the Gospel: Not that anyone has seen the Father, except him who is from God; he has seen the Father (John 6:46). He has therefore seen the Father, but he has seen the incomprehensible one. But the Father sees the Son in such a way as to hold and have him in his bosom, according to the testimony cited before, that no one has ever seen God; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known (John 1:18). For the Father sees the Son as Son: the Son sees the Father as the immense Father. Your Reverence pronounces human wisdom invisible; as I think, the saying of Isaiah suffices: Is it a small thing for you to make a contest with men? And how will you make a contest with the Lord? (Isa 7:13) But it is certain that it is no small thing to make a contest with men, since, however wise any one may be, he has one wiser who sees him. Then, is not his wisdom perceived in his work? Is it not proved in his disciples? Human wisdom, then, is not invisible, which can be comprehended, which is seen, which is even reproved. As for the rest, it is fitting and in order that you use worthy comparisons; since you speak of God, of that immensity; to whom, even if a comparison is given—as far as can be done according to human thought, or indeed according to the authority of the divine Scriptures—no comparison is found in all respects worthy of him who is incomparable.

15. 10. I say of the Father alone, according to the testimonies cited before, not with a second and a third, that he is one; but that he alone is the one God. But if he is not the only one, he is a part. For I do not say that God is one composed of parts; but he, what he is, is unbegotten, simple power: the Son too, before all ages, is himself begotten power. Concerning this power of the Son, the blessed Apostle was saying: When you are gathered together with my spirit, with the power of the Lord Jesus (1 Cor 5:4). For I say and profess what the holy Gospels teach us. And that the Holy Spirit too is himself power in his own propriety: concerning him the Lord bears witness, saying: But you sit (to his disciples) in the city of Jerusalem, until you are clothed with power from on high (Luke 24:49).

15. 11. If the Son is pronounced invisible by you on the ground that he cannot be contemplated by human eyes, why do you not equally pronounce the heavenly powers invisible, since they too cannot be seen by human gaze? I indeed brought forward a testimony without any interpretation of my own words, saying: The blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings, and Lord of lords (1 Tim 6:15). If I recited the Scripture, I ought not to have been reproved: but if you search out the sense of the Scripture, I give the account.

15. 12. For the Apostle says: The blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings. He says that the Father alone is Sovereign, not because the Son is not powerful. Hear, then, a testimony concerning the Son, the Holy Spirit himself crying out and saying: Lift up your gates, you princes; and be lifted up, you everlasting gates, and the King of glory shall come in. And there follows: Who is this King of glory? And understand the answer: The Lord strong and mighty (Ps 24:7-8 (23:7-8)). How is he not mighty, whose might every creature proclaims?

15. 13. How is he not wise, of whom the Holy Spirit, praising his wisdom, cries out and says: How magnified are your works, O Lord! In wisdom you have made them all (Ps 104:24 (103:24)). For since all things were made through Christ, without doubt it was of him that the Holy Spirit, praising him, said: In wisdom you have made them all. And since it is so, it must therefore be asked how blessed Paul says: The blessed and only Sovereign? As I think, he says that he is the only Sovereign because he alone is incomparable in his power. Of whose incomparableness the prophet, marveling, said: O God, who shall be like you? (Ps 83:1 (82:2)) Do you want to know that he alone is Sovereign? Look upon the Son, marveling at the power of the Son. For in him observe that he alone is Sovereign, who begot one so powerful. For the Father, in that immense power, begot a powerful creator. The Son, in that power received from the Father—as he himself says: All things have been delivered to me by my Father (Matt 11:27)—did not create a creator, but established a creature. For it was in marveling at this power of God the Father that Paul said: The blessed and only Sovereign. For if a man too is powerful and true, according to what we read of Job: That man was true and a just worshiper of God; and further, describing his region, it says that he was powerful and great among all those of the East (Job 1:1-3): how then is the Father the only Sovereign? But he says "only" for this reason: because no one is compared to him, because he alone is of such greatness, of such power, of such might. In like manner the blessed apostle Paul proclaims the Father alone wise, saying thus: To the only wise God (Rom 16:27). But the account must be sought, in what way he is the only wise: not that Christ is not wise. You have already brought forward Christ as the Power of God and the Wisdom of God (1 Cor 1:24): we too have given testimonies that he founded all things in wisdom. But the Father is truly the only wise. We believe the Scriptures, and we venerate these same divine Scriptures: and we do not wish to pass over a single jot, fearing the danger that is set down in these very divine Scriptures: Woe to those who detract from or add to them! (Deut 4:2) Do you want to know how great is the wisdom of the Father? Look upon the Son, and you will see the wisdom of the Father. And it was for this reason that Christ himself was saying: He who has seen me has seen the Father also (John 14:9); that is, in me he sees his wisdom, praises his power; he glorifies that One who begot me so great and so excellent before all ages, one the one, alone the alone. Not seeking matter from which to make him, not taking anyone as a helper, but as he himself knew, by his own power and wisdom he begot the Son. Not, as you say in bringing false charges, that, just as another creature was made out of nothing, so also we profess that he was made out of nothing as though he were one of the creatures. As to which, hear the authority of the synodal reading, that at Rimini our fathers said among other things this also: If anyone says the Son is from nothing, and not from God the Father, let him be anathema. If you wish, I will indeed bring forward testimonies. For the blessed apostle John says thus: He who loves the begetter loves also him who is born of him (1 John 5:1).

15. 14. For I wonder, my dearest. For since you say that the Holy Spirit too is from the substance of the Father, if the Son is from the substance of God the Father, and the Holy Spirit too is from the substance of the Father, why is the one a Son and the other not a son? What has he done wrong, since he is of the same substance, since he is equal to the Son, as you say; why then is he not also established as heir of all things; why is not he also a son? Why is not he too called by that name by which Christ is called: Firstborn of all creation (Col 1:15)? Or if he is equal, then the Son is no longer the only-begotten one, having another begotten along with him, and besides from the same substance of the Father, whence you say the Son also is. And this indeed is grievous to hear. For you do not compare that great magnificence to the noble character of the soul, but to the frailty of the body. From the body indeed flesh is born, a bodily son: yet the soul is not born of the soul. If, then, our soul begets incorruptibly and impassibly, feeling no diminution, no defilement; but lawfully, according to the divine laws, begets a son, the wisdom lending its agreement to the body remaining itself whole: how much more the almighty God?—and I said a little earlier that before him every human comparison should be silent, yet we try to speak as best we can—how much more did God the Father, incorruptible, incorruptibly beget the Son? But he did beget: hold to my caution—having indeed the testimonies of the holy Scriptures: His generation, who shall declare it? (Isa 53:8) He begot as he willed, as the Sovereign, taking nothing away, with no envy intervening he begot the powerful one. I said, it is not fitting for religious men to bring a false charge: I profess the Word of God, the Word of God, not mortal, not corruptible. Indeed, of the body that he took on for our salvation, the Scripture cries out concerning him: My flesh will rest in hope; that is, in the hope of resurrection; for you will not leave my soul in hell, nor will you let your holy one see corruption (Ps 16:9 (15:9)). For if that which was called holy, the Son of God, did not see corruption, since he rose again from the dead on the third day; how much more does the divinity, which took on the body, remain incorruptible? Why do you say that you do not understand? If I do not give you an answer on all points, I shall deservedly be judged to be without understanding: if not, yet it is not for a religious man to assail with insults. For I not only affirm that the wisdom of the Son of God is immortal, but I will also prove that the wisdom of the saints of God is immortal too. For if they too—that is, their bodies—are recalled to immortality, how much more does that living wisdom of theirs, which flourishes in all believers until the consummation of the age, surely remain immortal? Although in the length of my discourse I have passed over the matter of the immortality of the almighty God, concerning what the blessed apostle Paul said: Who alone has immortality (1 Tim 6:16); nevertheless I will go back over the text; and I will follow it up with the interpretation as well, with God favoring and granting grace. For he is described as having immortality alone, just as he is alone powerful, and just as he is alone wise. But who among spiritual men is unaware that the human soul is immortal? Besides, since it is the Savior's statement, who says: Do not fear those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul (Matt 10:28), as immortal. Since, then, the soul is immortal, much more do we perceive all the heavenly powers to be immortal. For since the Savior says: He who keeps my word will never see death (John 8:51). And if whoever keeps Christ's word will never see death; how much more is that One, according to the power of his divinity, immortal, whose word has so great force? But as for what he says: Who alone has immortality; we have already given the account. The Son indeed has immortality, but receiving it from the Father. All the heavenly powers too have immortality, but receiving it through the Son, since all things are through him. But the Father truly alone has immortality, who did not obtain that immortality from elsewhere, who has no begetter, who has no origin. But the Son, as you yourself have stated, is begotten of the Father. You often assert that the Son is equal to the Father: although the only-begotten God himself always and in all things proclaims the Father his author, from whom, as I said a little earlier, he professed in this manner that he obtained life also, saying: As the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself (John 5:26). Consider, then, that he received immortality and incorruptibility and inaccessibility, together with life, from the Father. But the Father has life in himself, not receiving it from anyone: and therefore he is truly the blessed and only Sovereign. Who emptied himself (See Phil 2:7)? The Father or the Son? Who hastened to please another through obedience, but the one who was saying: I always do what is pleasing to him (John 8:29)? Who is this who, coming to the tomb of Lazarus, was saying: Father, I thank you that you have heard me; and I knew that you always hear me, but I said it because of those who stand around, that they may believe that you sent me (John 11:41-42)? Who indeed is this who, when he was forming the eyes of the man born blind, the disciples saying: Who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind? answered: Neither did this man sin, nor his parents; but that the works of God might be made manifest in him: I must work the works of him who sent me (John 9:2-4)? This is surely the Son most dear to the Father, who, even taking the loaves, did not first break them, but first looked up to heaven, and gave thanks to his begetter, and so broke and distributed them. So too indeed in the passion itself, or rather very near to the passion, as the evangelist reports (See Matt 26:26): For the Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and giving thanks broke it (1 Cor 11:23-24). This is the Son—that I may not now dull you with eloquence of speech or with an abundance of testimonies, bringing forward very many, but may finish briefly—who proclaimed in this manner that nothing happens, down to the death of a sparrow, without the Father's permission, saying: Are not two sparrows sold for a penny; and not one of them will fall to the ground without the Father's will? (Matt 10:29) This one indeed, even concerning his own power, which he received from the Father, was saying: I have power to lay down my life, and I have power to take it up again. This commandment I have received from my Father (John 10:18). If the Gospels report it so, let what we read be held: if not, perhaps I may be reproved for some other thing, or for having, as forgetful, said too little. For I am not such as not to accept correction. Besides, since the blessed apostle Paul commands that a bishop be teachable (See 1 Tim 3:2); and he is teachable who daily both learns and advances in teaching better things: we do not reject it, if anything better has been said; we are ready for all things, even though we be afflicted with insults. Yet, that no clamor be raised against the truth, we do not complain of our own injury, but we proclaim the glory of God.

15. 15. It is certain that the Apostle says: Who, though he was in the form of God. For who denies that the Son is in the form of God? That he is God, that he is Lord, that he is King, I think we have already set forth at greater length. And that he did not count it robbery to be equal with God, the blessed apostle Paul instructs us in this: that he did not seize it—nor do we say so; but that he emptied himself, becoming obedient to the Father unto death, even death on a cross (Phil 2:6-8), we proclaim with all our strength. We are called sons by grace, not born so by nature: therefore the Son is only-begotten, because what he is according to the nature of his divinity, this the Son was born. To whom, if you perhaps join a brother—since you assert the Holy Spirit to be on a par and equal to the Son; and you equally profess that he is from the substance of the Father: if it is so, then the Son is no longer only-begotten, since another too is from the same substance. We did not receive a nature into the Father, the unbegotten God; we believe what Christ says: God is Spirit (John 4:24). The Son was born, as we said: we both profess the true Son, and we do not deny him to be like the Father; and besides, we are instructed from the divine Scriptures. For since we are accused of saying diverse natures, know this, what we say: that the Father, spirit, begot a spirit before all ages, God begot God: and the rest of what has already been said above. The true unbegotten Father begot a true Son. But when the Lord says in the Gospel: That they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent (John 17:3); he says that the Father is the only true one in the same way as he is also the only good, and the only powerful, and the only wise. As I think, not even the devil himself has dared to say that the Father did not beget a perfect Son before all things. For he did not beget one advancing in growth. For a man, of whom you also took up the comparison, if he could beget a perfect son at once, would not beget a little child, who, with the years accumulated, would at long last fulfill the will of his begetter. But the Father, who is truly blessed and the only Sovereign, begot a Son such as he both now is, and such as he remains without end—not advancing, but perfect: who also received perfection from his begetter, from whom he obtained life also. It is the Savior's statement: By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established (Matt 18:16). You brought forward the apostolic testimony: Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count it robbery (Phil 2:6): which you interpreted by your own judgment; we too, as we understood it, have answered. It will indeed be in the judgment of the hearers which of the two they choose: either, according to the sequence of the reading, to approve the Son as obedient to the Father, who emptied himself, taking the form of a servant; to whom the Father also bestowed, as we said, the name that is above every name (Phil 2:7, 9): or that each understand your interpretation.

15. 16. I am ascending to my God and your God (John 20:17): you assert—so I think, so you say—that the Lord said this on account of the form of a servant, which he took on; if he himself, humbling himself while he was in a human body, although death was vanquished and the devil triumphed over, after his resurrection uses this language, saying: I am ascending to my Father and your Father; where now the humility of the flesh was not necessary, as you say, on account of the Jews; but the whole rule of faith was being handed down. Just as also in another place, after his resurrection, having taken his disciples to the Mount of Olives, he was saying: All power has been given to me in heaven and on earth: go, teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things whatever I have commanded you (Matt 28:18-20). And if the Son said this for the sake of humility and not of truth, why did the Apostle dare to repeat the same and say: That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory (Eph 1:17)? Or indeed: The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ knows, who is blessed forever (2 Cor 11:31)? And also: That with one mind and one mouth you may honor the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (Rom 15:6)? And further he adds and says: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Cor 1:3)? Why indeed, even before the incarnation of Christ, did the Holy Spirit say to the Son: Therefore God, your God, has anointed you (Ps 45:7 (44:8))? Which anointing, however much you may want to argue, you will not be able to prove to have been made in the body; since we read that he was baptized (See Matt 3:16), but we do not read that he was anointed in the body. But from the reading itself, since it says: Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows (Ps 45:7 (44:8)); it is surely shown that, by the word "oil," the oil of gladness designates that gladness of which he was speaking through Solomon: I was the one in whom he rejoiced daily; and I was glad before his face at all times, when he rejoiced in the world made perfect, and was glad in the sons of men (Prov 8:30-31). But as for his saying: I was the one in whom he rejoiced daily: it is surely read in the book of Genesis that, at all the works of the Son the Father, as we read: And God saw, and behold, all things were very good (Gen 1:31); praising the work of his Son, rejoiced and was glad in the Son; and equally the Son, in the perfect will of the Father, was glad in the sight of his begetter. All Scripture inspired by God is profitable for teaching (2 Tim 3:16). For which reason not one jot or one tittle shall pass away (Matt 5:18). The Lord said: Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matt 24:35).

15. 17. It is established that in the beginning was the Son, and he was with the Father, and he was God: and this one was in the beginning with God, as the firstborn of all creation: and all things were made through him, and without him was made nothing (See John 1:1-3): which cannot be received in the person of the Holy Spirit. For you will not find such things reported from the divine Scriptures that you might assert him to be equal to the Son. Indeed the Son too was in the beginning: but the Father is before the beginning and without beginning, as unbegotten and unborn. But he was in the beginning as the firstborn of all creation (See Col 1:15). He was before all creation, before anything existed, and he was with God, and he was God, and this one was in the beginning with God.

15. 18. What if you hear the Father saying: With you is the beginning in the day of your power, in the splendors of the saints; from the womb before the daystar I begot you (Ps 110:3 (109:3))? From his mother's womb—which not even the Jews doubt—you profess him born according to the flesh. And why are those testimonies not brought into the open, which show that birth in the beginning, just as the preceding testimony also instructs us? If, on account of the body in which he emptied himself, who, though he was rich, for our sake became poor, as the Apostle says (2 Cor 8:9), he feels himself a debtor to his begetter; much more does he who begot one so great and so excellent—it is necessary that, as a most beloved Son, he always offer to his begetter the veneration that is owed and the obedience that is owed. You have stated very well, saying that he was also subject to his parents on account of the form of a servant (See Luke 2:51). For if he is found subject to parents, whom he himself created, since all things were made through him; for we know that the Son was begotten of the Father not after times, but before times: if he is subject to parents, as the authority of the divine Scriptures proclaims clearer than light; how much more surely is he subject to that begetter of his, who begot one so great and so excellent, according to what the apostle Paul says: When all things have been subjected to the Son, then the Son himself also will be subject to him who subjected all things to him (1 Cor 15:28)? Do you want this to be said by us too, that we profess all things subjected to the body, or rather to the dispensation that he took on for our salvation: indeed the body too subject to the Father, not the Son himself, the only-begotten God. For we know and believe that the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son even as they honor the Father (John 5:22-23). For we profess this, that even in the resurrection, when all things have been subjected to the Son, when all honor and venerate and adore him, not even then does the Son exalt himself: but even with all things subjected to him, he is found subject to the Father in such a way that he says: Come, you blessed of my Father, possess the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world (Matt 25:34).

15. 19. It has already been said what you too, by your own judgment, according to your own understanding, seemed to alienate. Yet the apostolic saying stands, that we do not know how to pray as we ought; but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words (Rom 8:26). And since you seemed to raise an objection by the argument, saying: Then the Holy Spirit is so wretched that he sighs? For we do not say that the Holy Spirit is wretched, since from the reading itself the glory of the Holy Spirit is shown, because he does not sigh for himself: but hear the reading, that it is for the saints (Rom 8:27). Indeed not even the Son intercedes and pleads for himself, but surely for us, as I have already brought forward earlier. He who is faithful in a little is found faithful also in much (Luke 16:10).

15. 20. For it cannot be asserted otherwise that the Father and the Son are one, except surely in this way, by which you yourself and we can prove it from these very examples that you used. For if, as you say, and the Apostle confirms: He who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit (1 Cor 6:17); he is surely one spirit, in agreement fulfilling the will of God, according to the Savior's teaching: who also taught us to pray in this way, that among the rest of our prayers we say this too: Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven (Matt 6:10). The earth is surely we ourselves. As, then, in the heavenly beings the will of God is done, so that in us too it may be fulfilled in this way—we who pray this, and may fulfill it by our deeds; that we may be made one spirit with God, when we will this which God wills. For the Son himself too, near to the passion, was surely crying this out to his begetter, saying: Abba, Father, let this cup pass from me; yet not as I will, but as you will (Mark 14:36). And by saying: Not as I will, but as you will, he showed his will truly subject to his begetter, for the doing of whose will he came down from heaven, as he says: I came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me (John 6:38). The will of the Son, then, is in harmony and agreement with the will of the Father. To the degree that the Son is greater, as God, than every creature, to that degree he is found more in harmony with the will of the Father, and cleaves more to his begetter. For I say, he cleaves to his begetter as the most beloved son, in love, and affection, and unanimity, and agreement, and concord. All things that are brought forward from the holy Scriptures we ought to receive with full veneration. For the divine Scripture has not come under our teaching, that it should receive correction from us. And would that we too may be found worthy to be approved as disciples of the Scriptures!

15. 21. I accept what you brought forward: Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? (1 Cor 3:16) For God does not dwell in a man whom the Holy Spirit has not first sanctified and purified. Indeed it was said to that blessed virgin Mary: The Holy Spirit will come upon you; surely to sanctify and to purify. Then there follows: And the power of the Most High will overshadow you (Luke 1:35). But that the power of the Most High is Christ, you yourself have already brought forward. The truth is not gathered from argument, but is proved by sure testimonies. For which reason you ought to bring forward testimonies that the Holy Spirit is God, that he is Lord, that he is King, that he is Creator, that he is maker, that he sits together with the Father and the Son, that he is adored, if not by the heavenly beings, at least by the earthly, so to say—for perhaps you will show that he is adored even by those under the earth. We say these things not in disparagement of the Holy Spirit. For the Holy Spirit, as we have already set forth above, is he without whom no one can say, the Lord Jesus (1 Cor 12:3). This is the Holy Spirit in whom we cry: Abba, Father (Rom 8:15). This is the Holy Spirit, so great and such, into whom even the angels long to look (1 Pet 1:12). He is such, so powerful, that everywhere in all creation, whether in the east or in the west, and even in the north and the south, whoever adores him cannot say: the Lord Jesus, except in the Holy Spirit. Such is his nature, who is everywhere present to all who call upon God in truth (See Ps 145:18 (144:18)). He is so great and such that, wherever anyone is baptized, in that same moment, whether he is baptized in the east or in the west, and wherever and wherever, the Holy Spirit is present. Consider how great is the power of the Holy Spirit. For if anyone disparages the Holy Spirit, he surely disparages the only-begotten God, through whom all things were made, and without whom was made nothing (John 1:3): just as he who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him (John 5:23).

15. 22. You say that our Savior Christ did not say: That they and we may be one; but: That they may be one in their own nature and their own substance, united and in a manner fused together by a concordant equality: and that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are one on account of their undivided and selfsame nature. I recite the reading, by which those who read can prove what Christ said. For he says thus in the Gospel, praying to his Father for the disciples: Father, make them one, as we also are one: as I am in you and you in me, that they also may be one in us; that this world may know that you sent me, and have loved them as you have loved me (John 17:21-23). What I read, I believe: he made mention of love, and not of substance. But it is certain that the Savior himself said: He who hears my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him; and we will come, and make our dwelling with him (John 14:21, 23). For if that great loftiness and majesty of the Father, and also of the Son, is received within one little cell of our mind; how much more surely is it certain and without doubt that the Son will be in the Father? Yet so as Son, as another than the Father: who indeed, as you yourself have set forth, are one—the Father and the Son; yet not one person: "one" pertains to concord, "one" pertains to singularity of number. For you also brought forward the testimony of blessed Paul, which we received with a willing mind: since that is a firm kind of truth which is drawn even from those who contradict it. For you recited that Paul said: I planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the growth. So neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters; but God who gives the growth. He who plants and he who waters are one; but each shall receive his own reward according to his own labor (1 Cor 3:6-8). Notice, then, that although they are one in concord, yet each shall receive his own reward according to his own labor. Consider, then, also that which the Lord says: I and the Father are one (John 10:30); which is believed and received by us with sure faith. He who says: I, is the Son; he who says: and the Father, shows another, the Father. He says: one; not, one person. It has often been said that "one" pertains to concord. How are the Father and the Son not one, when the Son cries out: I always do what is pleasing to the Father (John 8:29)? He would then at last not be one with the Father, if he ever did things contrary to the Father. So too the Apostles are one with the Father and the Son, in that, looking in all things to the will of God the Father, in imitation of the Son they too are found subject to the one God the Father. And we read that the Savior prayed that they may be one not only for the Apostles, but also for those who would believe through their word, saying: I do not pray for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word: that they all may be one, as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that this world may know that you sent me, and have loved them as you have loved me. He made mention, as we said, of love, and not of divinity. But who is unaware that Paul is Paul, and Apollos is Apollos; since Paul himself says: I labored more than all of them; yet not I, but the grace of God with me (1 Cor 15:10)? For he who labors more obtains more. Yet they are one, in agreement, in concord, in love; when they do that which God wills.

15. 23. You say that there is one God. Add, if the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are one God, or whether the Father alone is to be called the one God, whose Son, our Christ, is God. Do you exhort us, in the manner of the Jews, to profess one God? Or rather, from the subjection of the Son, according to what the Christian faith holds, is it shown that there is one God, whose Son is our God, as we said? For that the Father and the Son are not one person, believe at least Paul, who pronounces it through nearly every Epistle, saying: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom 1:7; 1 Cor 1:3; 2 Cor 1:2; Gal 1:3; Eph 1:2). And further: One God the Father, from whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him (1 Cor 8:6). This is the one God who is proclaimed by us Christians, whom the Son pronounces the one good, saying: No one is good but one, God (Mark 10:18). Not that Christ is not good; for he himself says: I am the good shepherd (John 10:11). Not that the Holy Spirit is not good; hear the prophet crying out: Your good Spirit will lead me in the right way (Ps 143:10 (142:10)). And hear further the testimony of the Savior, who says: The good man out of the treasure of his heart brings forth good (Luke 6:45). Moreover, every creature of God is very good. If the creature is good, if man is good, if the Holy Spirit is good, if Christ is good, in what way there is one good must be asked. Since the Savior says thus: No one is good but one, God; it is because he himself is the fountain of goodness, who, in that he is good, received it from no one. For Christ too, in that he is good, has it from his begetter that he is good; and every good creature of God received through Christ that it should be good. But whether the Son, or those who were made through him, each one took up from that one fountain of goodness, according to the measure of his faith, that they should be good. But the Father alone, in that he is good, received it from no one. And therefore Christ says: No one is good but one (Mark 10:18). So, then, there is one God, because there is one incomparable, because there is one immense, as we have already set forth.

15. 24. We do not deny that the Son loves the Father, since we read it also written: That this world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father has given me commandment, so I do (John 14:31). It is established that the Son is both loved and loves, and fulfills the commandment of the Father, as he himself asserts. And therefore they are one, according to what he says: I and the Father are one (John 10:30). For as to his saying: He who has seen me has seen the Father also (John 14:9); it must be believed with sure faith that he who sees the Son, through the Son sees and understands the Father.

15. 25. On account of the form of a servant, you have professed the Father greater: which seems to me exceedingly foolish. For we know, as you yourself have brought forward, that in the form of a servant he was made even less than the angels. For you have not been lavish enough toward the glory of God, you who profess the Father greater with respect to the form of a servant. With respect to the form of a servant, even the angels are greater. For Christ did not come to instruct us that with respect to the form of a servant the Father is greater: but the Truth came to us in order to teach and instruct us that the Father is greater than the Son, and this the Son who is the great God. For we glorify the Father in such a way that we profess him greater than the great God, that we proclaim him more exalted than the exalted one. But whether this is the honor due to God, that the Father be greater than the servile form—you will see to it.

15. 26. You say that the divinity showed itself to the fathers: and a little earlier you stated that the divinity is surely invisible. It did indeed show itself—not the Father, who is invisible: lest, if we should say that the Father was seen, we make the Apostle a liar, who says: Whom no one of men has seen, nor can see (1 Tim 6:16). And we are found to resist not only the New Testament, but we are found contrary in like manner to the Old as well. For Moses says thus: No one can see God and live (Exod 33:20). This same Moses indeed described in the book of Genesis that from that first man Adam down to the incarnation itself, the Son was always the one seen. For if you seek testimonies, you surely have it set down: the Father saying to the Son: Let us make man in our image and likeness. There follows: And God made man (Gen 1:26-27). Who indeed is God, but the Son? This too you set forth in your discourses. This Son, then, who is the prophet of his begetter, who also was saying: It is not good for man to be alone; let us make for him a helper like himself (Gen 2:18); this Son was the one seen by Adam, according to what we read Adam saying: I heard the sound of you walking in paradise, and I hid myself, because I was naked. You surely have what God said to him: And who told you that you were naked, unless you have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat? (Gen 3:10-11) This God was also seen by Abraham (See Gen 18:1): and that it was the Son who was seen by Abraham, if you are willing to believe it, surely the only-begotten God himself affirmed in the holy Gospel, saying thus: Abraham your father rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it, and was glad (John 8:56). This Son was also seen by Jacob, who, in the figure in which he was to come, that is, of a man, is found to have wrestled with Jacob in anticipation. Whence Jacob too was saying: I have seen the Lord face to face, and my soul has been saved (Gen 32:30). And the name of that place was called: The vision of God. Affirming this very thing was surely God, who in anticipation was wrestling with Jacob—which we see fulfilled in the passion of Christ. For he said to Jacob himself: Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel shall be your name (Gen 32:28), that is: A man seeing God. This one we prove to have been seen in the New Testament also. Of him the Apostles were saying: And we beheld his glory, glory as of the only-begotten of the Father (John 1:14). But for the rest, if, as you yourself attempt, it should be asserted that the Father was seen, then all the Scriptures are liars in your view. For indeed Paul proclaims the Father invisible (See 1 Tim 6:16), and the Lord affirms it in the Gospel (See John 1:18). You often accuse us, that boldly and presumptuously we say things that ought not to be said by us, which indeed will be in the judgment of the readers to prove. For we do not speak in such a way as to obtain anyone's praise; but out of zeal for gathering the brotherhood that is with us: or perhaps because you yourself deigned to provoke us to give an answer, so that those who in our view were branded might agree with your profession, so to say—it was necessary for me, out of the fear of God, to give you an answer. Since you tried not only by words to strip me of their discipleship, but also gave your treatise, to which it is necessary that I answer those things which I set forth concerning the invisibility of the almighty God. You too, though with another purpose, nevertheless affirmed by your words that the Holy Spirit was seen in the form of a dove, and also in the form of fire (See Matt 3:16; Acts 2:3); the Son indeed in the form of a man; but the Father, neither in the form of a dove nor in the form of a man; nor did he ever turn himself into forms, nor will he ever be turned; of whom it is written: I am who I am, and I have not changed (Exod 3:14; Mal 3:6). The Son indeed, established already in the form of God, as you yourself brought forward, took the form of a servant, which the Father did not: the Holy Spirit equally took on the form of a dove, which the Father did not take on. Know, therefore, that there is one who is invisible, one who is also incomprehensible and immense. I pray and desire to be a disciple of the divine Scriptures: for I believe your Reverence retains from above also that I gave this answer, that if you bring forward that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit have one power, one substance, one deity, one majesty, one glory; if you affirm it from the divine Scriptures, if anywhere you bring forward a written reading, we desire to be found disciples of the divine Scriptures.

I, Maximinus the bishop, have signed.

And after the debate of those present, Augustine dictated this: You said that I speak fortified by the help of princes, not according to the fear of God: but to men, to whom God grants understanding, it is sufficiently apparent who speaks according to the fear of God; whether the one who obediently hears the Lord saying: Hear, O Israel; the Lord your God, the Lord is one (Deut 6:4)—which we both obediently hear and faithfully proclaim—or the one who is unwilling to hear this in such a way as to contend that there are two lords, two gods; and so, by introducing two gods and two lords, shows that he does not fear the one Lord God who says: Hear, O Israel; the Lord your God, the Lord is one. But you know that your most lengthy discourse took up the time in which we might have answered, and that there remained only so much of the day as would by no means suffice even for what you said to be read over to us. Yet you should know that all the things you brought forward—to prove that the Son of God is God, and the great God, and is born of the Father, and that he himself is one and the Father another, since the Father is not himself the Son—pertained to vast delays, by which you used up necessary time: as though it were for us to prove from you what we too confess to be true. For we do not say that he who is the Son is himself the Father, or that he who in the Trinity itself is the Holy Spirit is himself the Father or the Son. Plainly the one is another, and the other another, and the third another: but all together are one Lord God. For if we should say that there are two lord-gods—one great, the other greater; one good, the other better; one wise, the other wiser; one merciful, the other more merciful; one powerful, the other more powerful; one invisible, the other more invisible; one true, the other more true; and whatever else of this kind you showed yourself to hold, in order to persuade us that we have two lord-gods—if, then, we should say this, God himself will refute us, saying what I have already recalled: Hear, O Israel; the Lord your God, the Lord is one (Deut 6:4). As though he were to say to us: Sons of men, how long will you be heavy of heart? Why do you love vanity, and seek a lie? (Ps 4:2 (4:3)) Why do you make for yourselves two lord-gods? Why, when I cry out: Hear, O Israel, are you unwilling to hear: The Lord your God, the Lord is one; but cry out against me: Our lord-gods, the lords, are two? Would you do this, if you wished to be Israel? Since, then, this name is interpreted: A man seeing God; I ask you, grant me pardon, if you do not wish it, I do wish to be Israel. For I wish to be counted in the fellowship of those to whom it is granted to see God. And we thank him, because he makes us see now through a glass darkly, but then face to face, as the Apostle says (1 Cor 13:12). And so, by his gift, even if still through a glass darkly, yet we see how these two things are not contrary to each other—that the Father is one, the Son another, the Holy Spirit another, and yet these three together are one Lord God. I have done, as I could, that you too might see this: but you preferred to resist, because you were unwilling to be Israel. But if you perhaps cannot yet see this, believe, and you will see. For these things are seen by understanding, not by gazing with the eyes of the flesh. And you surely know that the prophet said: Unless you believe, you will not understand (Isa 7:9). When, therefore, you hear: The Lord your God, the Lord is one; do not make two lord-gods, the Father and the Son. And when you hear: Do you not know that your bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God; and in the same place: Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ (1 Cor 6:19, 15): when, then, you hear these things, do not deny that the Holy Spirit is God, lest you make the members of the Creator the temple of a creature. First believe that these three are both, in their individual persons, three, and yet together are not three lord-gods, but one Lord God; and the Lord himself will grant to the one who believes and prays the understanding, so that what you believe you may also deserve to see, that is, to understand. For consider diligently all the things you said in your lengthy disputation, and you will see that they descend from this error, by which you make two lord-gods, against the clearest voice of the Lord God saying: The Lord your God, the Lord is one (Deut 6:4); and you deny that the Holy Spirit is God, whose temple you cannot deny to be holy. Let this, in the meantime, after our debate, in which we, present, spoke in turn, suffice to have admonished you; but if the Lord wills—since it is a long matter, and you are hastening to return—I will set out our statements, with as much clarity as I can, before the eyes of those who are willing to read, and I will show, like it or not, that you wanted to prove your false dogmas by true divine testimonies.

And in another hand: I, Augustine the bishop, have signed.

Likewise in another hand, Maximinus: When you have written out this little book, and have sent it to me, if I do not give an answer to all points, then I shall be at fault.

The proceedings are finished. I have collated them.